Author Topic: Statement From The Chancellery: On Recent Turmoil  (Read 402 times)

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Offline Beatrice

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Statement From The Chancellery: On Recent Turmoil
« on: February 23, 2022, 07:51:03 AM »

Fellow Orderians,

It has come to my attention that a secondary Discord server has been established by certain members of the Order who have been unhappy with certain things. Our region has existed for over eight years now and I feel as though we've come to take for granted the stability and calm we've enjoyed for so long that certain responsibilities and attentions have become more lax than they should be, hence a meeting between myself and the Orderian Government (and Discord moderation staff) to address concerns and ensure that the Order's Discord is a welcoming and safe place for all Orderians.

I am disappointed that instead of issues being discussed with me, the Vice Chancellor, or Lord Chief Justice actions have been taken which could have been avoided. At this point I am playing catch-up, dealing with issues via second-hand information when it would have been easier to address things when issues were being noticed instead of weeks, or months, later. Any Orderian who has an issue has always been welcome to send me a PM, let me know what issue is being had, and I promise to do my best to sort things so that everyone can continue to enjoy our community.

The answer is not a separate Discord: a divided community will not stand for very long, nor will a community that is incapable of discussing issues and working together to fix them. The Order has one Discord, it is prescribed for by regional law, and the preservation of the Order's digital assets is a responsibility of the Chancellery. Let us all work together to see the Order's Discord community rejoined, rebuild the foundations for problem solving and ensuring harmony, and discuss issues when they occur and not leave regional leadership to fly in the dark, so to say. My efforts thus far regarding this issue are one part of the equation, I will need the help of all Orderians to fully resolve these issues and render the "need" for an unofficial Discord unnecessary.

Thank you all for your time. I look forward to working with you all on these issues and paving the way toward ten years of the Order!

Beatrice Anselmo
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Offline Altona

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Re: Statement From The Chancellery: On Recent Turmoil
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2022, 08:48:17 AM »
Being honest here. Whenever I'm on discord I see people starting arguements because their writing RP aimed at messing with other people rather than writing a story, I see people in apparent positions of power wanting rules changing to suit them or their posse (i.e recently 7th provinces and retrospective nukes for some) , we've then constant moans about maps etc. Also if I'm honest since this blew up I had no idea the Grand Chancellor and Vice Chancellor were not just silly names for people who had moderation power on Discord. I also had no idea we even had a government. Since joining the only person with any title or such that has reached out to me is Dave. If we're supposed to have a government then surely we should see it doing things.


Offline Nova

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Re: Statement From The Chancellery: On Recent Turmoil
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2022, 09:25:35 AM »
To add on Altona's comment, was the reason I personally left, since brought nothing productive to discuss on the Discord (joined back since forum PMs are quite tiresome for organising RPs, even if very useful to differentiate IC from OOC), specially when you have people telling you how you shall RP your nation (lol).
There are some players that I don't have affinities with, and it's fine, they don't to me, and so of course whenever there's a RP forced by the realism of RP, it's more of a pain than anything, specially with godmodding actions committed (aka actions which don't depend on the player yet he/she acts like it does and decide it in RP), one of which required of me 3 hours of debate during an evening, plus 2 additional hour the next day, to have it finally fixed after 3 interventions from another player and 2 interventions from the RP Moderator.

People should just focus and remember that they can only RP their nations (main and secondary), and whenever they want to do something which they don't have authority on, discuss nicely with the owner (when their RP isn't entirely biased by OOC concerns and informations that they have, but shouldn't IC). It's a basic, that is rarely ever done. And when you also have people, who do some RP, and then retcon it because it doesn't suit how they wanted other players to react, that's the most annoying. Those are the two reasons, which often happen unfortunately, why I personally argue on the Discord server, and why it's such a pain.
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Online Tytor

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Re: Statement From The Chancellery: On Recent Turmoil
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2022, 05:51:09 PM »
Though I'm not the one these comments have been directed toward, I want to address a few misconceptions I see.

First, as the one who's been seeking a retcon for inclusion in the nuclear disarmament storyline, I want to note that I've not seen anybody advocating for rule changes like what has been suggested.  Nobody is asking for a seventh territory - closest you get is B considering swapping Clysperis for Rishiri (which would then become an independent nation) as her secondary.  The thing with nukes would be a retcon affecting what is now canonical history - no rule change, just a change to canon.

Second, assuming the reference to "constant moans about maps" is talking about discussions of the possibilities of map expansion, well... I don't see the issue.  After all, the Discord server is meant for discussions, and map expansion is a valid topic of debate.  Or would some people prefer to be unable to voice concerns about the current state of the RP?

Third, as one of the players Nova doesn't "have affinities with", I want to address his comment directly.  As has been pointed out many times on Discord, Nova's complaints about godmodding have little if any basis in fact.  The targets of his complaints have acted entirely on what is public knowledge IC, and any and all mistakes have derived entirely from miscommunication.  The only person making attempts at godmodding in this conflict (which wouldn't even be a conflict if Nova hadn't made it one) seems to be Nova himself, namely by trying to dictate to other players that they are somehow required to find his nation's actions acceptable no matter what.  In short, the dispute Nova is referencing as the Discord server's flaw is actually exactly the sort of thing the Discord server is meant to prevent.  The only reason it hasn't is because he has refused to take the time to actually work things out with those he insists on quarreling with.

And now my point.  The Discord server is meant to be a place where Orderians can discuss stuff, from RP collaboration to far-fetched canon proposals.  While it is perfectly true that the server can become a little toxic at times, I am confident that everyone in it ultimately means well, even if I happen to disagree with them from time to time.  So it really falls to us, as members of this region, to work on making the Order into the kind of community that is welcoming to everyone, and if that means thinking a little longer about what we type before we post it, then so be it.  Lack of proper communication got us into this mess.  Let's not exacerbate the issue by refusing to communicate properly now.
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Offline Achkaerin

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Re: Statement From The Chancellery: On Recent Turmoil
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2022, 08:00:20 PM »
In respect of the regional government I'll clarify what that amounts to (such as it is), it essentially comprises four people - Beatrice, CGJ, Dave and myself each of us has a different area of responsibility, Beatrice deals more with the NS side, CGJ is the root forum administrator, Dave is the RP Mod and I'm the Lord Chief Justice (which is a fancy way of saying I keep an eye on player behaviour/conduct in an OOC sense). In eight years we've only once had a situation where we've witnessed unacceptable behavior and that was an instance of one player cyber stalking several others. I will however add that some of what is seen on the regional discord is really not on, it doesn't give a good impression and so on. So as LCJ I'm going to ask people to remember that IC does not translate to OOC, such is the nature of issues within the RP that not everyone is going to like everything that happens however that doesn't give anyone the right to persistently argue, belittle or otherwise harass players whether by forum pm or on discord. If people believe that's happening to them I need to be made aware of it so action can be taken, much as I try to I'm not across every message sent on discord, equally I would suggest people discuss rather than argue, this is a roleplay leave the animosity on Mundus and be respectful on the discord it should not be that difficult to do and I believe the majority of the region does this.



Now with my cartographer's hat on I'm going to be very clear that there is no plan to expand the map, the only reason I would do so is if we were getting low on space - there are near enough 700 territories on the map at a guess at least half of them aren't filled. I understand people wanting a bigger map but it's already 1500 pixels by 1500 pixels and I'm not sure how much bigger it could go without causing issues for the page on the website. In my view the map does what it needs to do by providing references for distances and locations, people discussing it doesn't bother me.

I'm also going to make a point on the "7th province" issue - this is only an issue in respect of Rokkenjima/Rishiri. It's not an ideal situation, it's a compromise position owed mainly to it pre-dating my being cartographer and the RP admin setup of 2014 being substantively different. If Rishiri operated on the same rules that I've since instituted which is to count them as a territory (Elysium counts as one on Heyra's claim, Gowu counts as one on Ach's claim) then Rokk has seven and Rishiri wouldn't be allowed - this is why Rishiri is subject icly to a very heavily conditioned treaty, I'm open to questions about this because I know people query it a lot.

Offline Lijiang

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Re: Statement From The Chancellery: On Recent Turmoil
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2022, 08:49:52 PM »
I was considering what to write that would be useful this morning (UK Time) which was when Beatrice posted her comment. I'd thought of a few things but now I kind of see its pointless after what's been said. I know for a fact their is Midaranye Discord, which has at least two of the supposed "Leadership" of TIO in. We then get told "The Order has one Discord, it is prescribed for by regional law, and the preservation of the Order's digital assets is a responsibility of the Chancellery." ......but we don't clearly. I suspect there are other sub-discords kicking around. This for me is one of our biggest issues that if you go on discord there seems to be two sets of rules. We had Beatrice the other day saying "I'll swap a province of Clysperis to get Rishiri" yet the RP rules clearly limit the province limit so that offer shouldn't even have been suggested. Then during the conversation about nukes rather than asking the RP Mod why other nations couldn't have nukes it was why one particular nation couldn't. Rightly or wrongly there is the feeling among a lot that we have in a sense multiple regions existing in one, we have a region of people who hang out on discord talking about their nations but actually not creating RP for anyone to get involved in, we've then what I'll call the "Cross Straits" group that just seem to do their own thing and if anyone IC criticises them it becomes a big issue, we've then a group who are rarely active on a regular basis but have fits of activity, then everyone else. The problem is that when a platform for people to share their concerns appears it descends into the same petty arguments Discord sees.

I share Altona's view that I was unaware that things like Grand Chancellor were anything other than just fancy titles for moderator.

Offline Beatrice

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Re: Statement From The Chancellery: On Recent Turmoil
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2022, 11:40:28 PM »
I can say that there should be no cliques, and the appearance of any existing is something we'll be working to eliminate. I am easily approachable, we're one TIO, so when there are issues I will do all that is within my means to solve them. My PM box is always open, both here on the forums and on Discord, and I encourage everyone to utilize them. At the end of the day everyone should feel comfortable here, should be able to have a good time, and that's what we're working toward as one region so that we may continue to see quality writing and engaging world building continue.

On the issue at hand, a discussion on Discord which may be better for here:

Quote
We need to establish something, together. Does anyone have an issue with organisational Discord servers? I imagine if they are kept they'd have to have a member of regional leadership there to ensure things all check out, but there is a difference between a sub-Discord that is purpose-built for an organisation and, say, a server that is established as an alternative to the Order's server.

There is a difference between servers that are purpose-built for things like Midaranye, SANE, CSC: they aren't serving as an alternative to the Order's Discord server, nor are they aiming to do so. Such an alternative server splinters the Order's community at a time we should be coming together. I invite all members of this unofficial server to speak with me, and regional leadership, so that we may remove this split from our community and render that server unnecessary. I've already began many changes, but hearing concerns and working together brings us closer to having our community under one roof again, as it should be.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2022, 05:21:20 AM by Beatrice »

Beatrice Anselmo
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Offline Markus

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Re: Statement From The Chancellery: On Recent Turmoil
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2022, 07:27:21 PM »
I keep this brief since I don’t want to put gas on fire. I share many of the concerns raised on this thread. I hope the management of the region continues to address the concerns. I see an initial effort has been made and the problem is acknowledged but this will require effort over a longer period of time.

For my part I will do my best to avoid creating disruptions or divisive discussions. I also remain committed to the region and I only RP here. 

Quote
We need to establish something, together. Does anyone have an issue with organisational Discord servers? I imagine if they are kept they'd have to have a member of regional leadership there to ensure things all check out, but there is a difference between a sub-Discord that is purpose-built for an organization and, say, a server that is established as an alternative to the Order's server.

I think it could work. At least it would keep some discussions contained to only the people interested in such topics. The only issue I see that there might be too many of them: CSU, CSTO, CNN, TUNA, SANE, the Auraxis Group, MICA, Council of Albion, SUN and then others might want regional one: MidAranye, Rus Universe etc.

Offline hobbes

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Re: Statement From The Chancellery: On Recent Turmoil
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2022, 11:59:42 AM »

I think it could work. At least it would keep some discussions contained to only the people interested in such topics. The only issue I see that there might be too many of them: CSU, CSTO, CNN, TUNA, SANE, the Auraxis Group, MICA, Council of Albion, SUN and then others might want regional one: MidAranye, Rus Universe etc.
I think a easier solution would be I can very easily make channels for specific groups with tags in the existing discord.
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Offline Markus

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Re: Statement From The Chancellery: On Recent Turmoil
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2022, 02:34:15 PM »
What is the status on the "organizational Discord servers"? Are we still doing them?