With the ink still drying on the Historic Crimes Treaty its two principle authors, King David of East Moreland and King Piripi of the Commonwealth of the Unified Iwi, have joined me to discuss the formation of that document, where it goes in the future and several unrelated matters. The Treaty itself was born out of a breakdown in relations between the Unified Iwi and Rokkenjima when the Rokkenjiman government began various patrols targeting observing Maori Naval assets. The two Kings have had several meetings and video calls that saw the treaty created as both a way of solving the stand off with the Rokkenjimans while simultaneously giving the Maori a way to see justice done. Between the 1600's and 1983 the occupying forces of Royal Seleucid committed a wide range of atrocities against the Maori ranging from utilising the Maori as medical experiments, mass executions and torture. Meanwhile the Morelanders feel an obligation to ensure the protection of members of the Cult of Helus following a genocide attempt in Royal Seleucid and then the expulsion of Cultists from Mavrosia. We currentlty stand at 14 nations having signed the document but to date there has been no use of the youngest treaty on Mundus. Tonight we get to learn a little more about the formation of the Treaty and the men who authored it.
Krista - If I may begin by asking when did work begin on the Treaty and what was the catalyst behind it?David From my end the study of history showed me there are a whole host of events in modern history that cry out that people have escaped justice. I've always wanted a way of trying to right that and while originally the Uppsala Convention was an oppurtunity to get that done we didn't think there was much chance to press through with it at the time. When our friends began having difficulty getting suspects extradited we felt it was time to revisit but just as the Uppsala Convention needed a co-author I believed this did too.
Piripi From our side we've tried bringing perpetrators to justice but seen very little uptake from other nations across Mundus. When our naval vessels began being monitored as part of Operation Typhoon we knew that we would need some kind of mechanism to bring people to justice. I've spoken with King David several times and he'd mentioned something like this and so when he asked if I'd be willing to work with him I naturally said yes. That then lead us to spend a few hours before rugby games and via the wonder of video conferencing working towards the creation of a document that with help from King Karlis, First Minister Laine, Head Gothi Ulfsson and Queen Atalanta we've been able to get this over the finishing line.
Krista - Now that it has been signed how long do you think it will be before it gets utilised?Piripi I would hope soon. The initial Director-General of the investigative part of the Treaty is Otikoro Muhali, he has set up a brilliant team in the Commonwealth that have a track record of finding perpatrators across Mundus. He now has access to a much wider set of resources and of course this will enable him to cover more ground in many ways. Add to this the fact that now when he does find someone we have a mechanism in place meaning we can get to these people. I would hope within the next few months we can start seeing the first arrests and while I hope it will lead to people being sent to the nation where the crime was committed I doubt that will happen.
David I echo that. My understanding is Mr.Muhali already has a list of people he wishes to see put on trial and I guess he will likely already have a head start on many. We're putting together a team of young legal graduates to help him and his staff with the aim of beginning the processes we have enshrined in the Treaty. When we signed the Treaty with the three other nations it was my hope that we can have the first trial by the end of this year and see the Treaty having a real impact on Mundus.
Krista - What would you say to critics of the treaty that say these events are in many cases a long time in the past and that it would be far better to just simply move on.?David I'd say to them something my old University tutor Dr.Marcus Merriman was fond of saying, "Those who do not learn the lessons of the past are doomed to repeat them." The idea of letting someone from just a few years ago escape justice because of time is insane. Even those who committed crimes against Chistopol when the Soviets occupied it must be brought to justice. To do otherwise shows would be perpatrators that you can escape justice.
Piripi Our society says that victims of crimes suffer a lose of spiritual power, or tapu. Until justice has been given an individuals tapu can not be restored. We have literally millions of Maori spanning generations that had their spiritual power destroyed alongside their physical bodies. For us this is as much about restoring the tapu of those who have gone before us by showing the world we remember their plight. While we will be trying to bring as many of those who occupied our homeland as possible to justice we will also be conducting work to record the names of anyone from any point in the history of our occupation that took part in the genocide of our people and culture. Time must not be a safe haven.
Krista - With both nations having a reason to believe Selecuid citizens have perpatrated crimes of interest to your people can we expect any measures to be taken against them??Piripi We already have no diplomatic connection to them and see no reason to change that. There are no direct flight to that nation, no trade between us and we have no embassy there, nor do they have one here. This is a situation that I will not be seeking to change. With the new treaty we hopefully have the ability to exact pressure on them to hand over criminals when we discover their whereabouts and I hope nations will not hesitate to utilise the ideas we have put onto paper.
David For ourselves we are in a strange situation. There is a mistrust there between ourselves and the Seleucid, mainly as there has been little done to ensure the guilty are punished in a way that is meaningful. Thousands of Seleucid military members took part in the genocide attempt against Cultists and yet less than 100 people have been punished, most with very leniant prison sentences. On the other hand we stand as a nation committed to protecting the members of the Cult if required, as well as others who can not protect themselves. The Celtic Protectorate gave us hope things would change, so far things have been going well there but time will tell if it can be maintained. We shall review the situation as and when trials are needed.
Krista - As we go to air a total of 14 nations have signed the Treaty. Do you think this will become one of the pillars of the international community?Piripi In a word no. The International Community is not a community. We live on a Mundus that is fragmented into groups. We will not have a situation where those fragmentations repair. There is no issue that will get all nations together. Look at the idea of human rights, something I think all nations agree on that their citizens should have rights. But which rights? To many the MCUR was that document but even then it never got universal support, now we have an alternative in the Abrahamic Declaration, and that too will never get universal rights. People focus too much on these documents on things that are a large chasm apart, for example the idea of transgender rights. There are then nations like ourselves who culturally will struggle with some of the concepts of both documents. What nations need to do is focus on the similarities, the MCUR and Abrahamic version both highlight things such as no torture, no false imprisonment and protection for children. We should applaud that and let it unite us, but we won't. This is the reason why we won't see this document become one of those pillars.
David - I'm a little more hopeful. The international community is always going to have splits but that doesn't mean we can't co-operate. The FSC while not signed by all nations on Mundus is followed in spirit. The Uppsala Convention has shown that documents like that can have an impact for good as we've seen a reduction in weapons of mass destruction since its creation. I don't think for something to become important internationally it needs unanamous support. It just needs nations willing to stand squarely behind and when the time comes put their shoulder to the wheel and make things happen. I'm confident that the initial five members of this and now the additionally nine will do exactly that.
Krista - Lets turn our attention away from this treaty for a moment or two. Could I ask with the S.U.N. seeming to become politically active across Mundus do you think they pose a threat to the C.N.N.
?David I don't see them as a threat. I think they exist as a result of some mismanagement of foreign policies. If we look at the membership we've some nations with serious diplomatic muscle. First Paracambi, a nation whose Emperor gave me a tough time recently and a founder of TUNA, a significant economic bloc with great policies on the environment. Cassiopeia, since Queen Atalanta regained control of her homeland we've seen them take stands to ensure the FSC was followed correctly and take a leadership role in pulling together these disenchanted nations. In the guise of Drenovia we have a nation that simply seeks to carve out protections for its citizens as it has a fear like we ourselves did of the wider world. Finally we have Chistopol, King Karlis is a great man and his current First Minister have brokered peace between the two Kaitaines and then orchestrated treaties with former Soviet targets. I have yet to see anything in these four that I would consider hostile. I think the S.U.N is an intriguing organisation and I wish it well.
Piripi King Karlis is a man we took inspiration from in the Commonwealth. He lead his people to drive the Soviets out and is a Warrior Chief. True Warrior Chiefs do not seek war but ensure they are prepared for them. I think it makes sense to have several nations you view as close friends and we've been blessed with them. Cassiopeia are our neighbours and I look forward to working with them. I am yet to meet King Karlis but I look forward to doing so. The way I have just spoken of these two Heads of state should tell you whether I view them as a threat.
Krista - Is there plans to extend the CNN and if so who would you like to see join?Piripi The plan is to take each situation as it arises. I know we have had nations discuss with us as Heads of State relations with the C.N.N and that's great. If you are asking if we are actively recruiting then my answer would be no. A pre=requisit would be that whoever wishes to join should enjoy good relations with each of us, we started as a group of friends and we remain that. New friends can join but you join once you are a friend, not simply by filling in an application form.
David I think the C.N.N. is at a point where we don't need another member. But just because you don't need something doesn't mean that you won't get something, occasionally opportunities arise that are interesting and must be investigated. Unlike the old C.I.S and C.S.T.O defence is not the heart of why we exist. We exist because our four nations had monarchs who became friends and from there our nations became friends. The C.N.N. have spent more time on co-operative projects than we have on military matters. While defence is one aspect of our charter it is not the bit that interests me the most. In the future I can imagine perhaps one or two more nations joining as we become closer friends with their leadership.
Krista - The idea of friendship brings me to a question for King David. Your nation has been ranked by a Heyran based company as having the most soft power of all the nation of Mundus. In your opinion what does East Moreland do that other nations don't or do poorly?David I'm already on record saying I'm proud our nation is seen this way. It reflects brilliantly on the work that our ambassadors, civil servants and foreign office have done. I think we have been successful as we want our connections to not be dependent on paper. Many people view diplomacy as the need for getting a piece of paper with four key articles, better trade, better travel, embassies and a paper agreement to not fight. Paper though is no guarantee of success. Look at Heyra and Rokkenjima, at one point they had pieces of paper with all these things on and now they are at each others throats most weeks. While I add my name to treaties I see that as only putting on the historic record that I have given my word I will do something and that is the most important thing. The Book of the Shield tells us "Do actions agree with words? There's your measure of reliability." In my time as King I'd like to think I have shown myself to be reliable and if I say something then it is as good as done. I guess our success is that I'm predictable. As for other nations from what I read and see it is that they often only want that bit of paper, they don't want a relationship with the culture, the heritage and the soul of the nation they are doing business with. They often enter into projects with the idea of nations being unequal partners. Every nation on Mundus has much they can offer that will help me and my Kingdom.
Krista - With that in mind does that explain why we have seen you guarantee East Moreland's global influence through organisms such as the CNN and the faith of Helus, and regionally through MICA; what is left as Morelanders' needs to its goals regarding foreign relations??David holds up a hand and begins counting fingers - Abertone, Zaporazah, Samantra, Drenovia, Kodima. I could go on and on. These are our goals, the nations with whom I've not yet had a chance to visit their homeland. I enjoy travelling and I enjoy seeing other lands and cultures, while I've seen a great deal of Mundus there are still many corners to get to and these each present an opportunity to help East Moreland make new friends and with friendship comes mutually improved prosperity. As for the various organisations these are merely the frameworks that allow amazing things to happen. The partnership with Cenneg and Alander space programmes came through these and allowed our engineers to literally shoot for the stars. We then have our friendship at a more local level that allowed us to effectively make the Illumic free from piracy. If we make the world better we reap the benefits and that can't be done alone. I find myself in a rather unique position as members of the Cult of Helus believe I am descended from our great hero Raimond Unasson. That brings with it some responsibilities and pressures but it is a nice position to be in as I know it has opened some doors that would otherwise likely have been shut. In short our goal in foreign relations is to make more relationships.
Krista - If we contrast that with the Commonwealth, some see you as perhaps the weaker of the CNN nations due to you being less economically developed. Is there anything you can tell us about the way you intend to close the gap, if at all. Piripi One thing about the Maori you should know is that we are not frightened by hard work. For the time being we are a nation that lacks the economic fire power of our Cenneg and Morelander friends but we are by no means a poor relation. Without offending my friend here I think we are the strongest community within the CNN. The sense of belonging that our people have is incredible, partly because of our tribal structures and rituals and partly because the war for freedom is still a fresh scar. We've been focused for too long on the idea of vengeance and been like a teenager sulking in our room. Well now we are going to change that. We're a nation blessed to have probably just enough oil and gas to provide for ourselves, maybe a few imports. If we can create a situation where we can begin exporting these then we stand a great chance of investing in other avenues. We are a nation with a proud maritime heritage that has yet to hit the 21st Century in terms of what we can produce. That will be where we shall start and then we'll put in place projects to move younger Maori from the fields and forests to the labs, workshops and offices of the world.
Krista - You just described your nation as being like a teenager sulking in your room. I suspect this could explain why the Iwi has been more discrete for some time before signing the Historic Crimes Treaty, what can we expect from the Iwi in terms of foreign affairs agendas in the next 12 monthsPiripi I have three goals. The first is to establish strong relationships with our two Ardian Gulf neighbours. I think if myself and Queen Atalanta can reach a good understanding we have an ideal bridge between the S.U.N and the C.N.N. which can be useful in the years to come. I then want to ensure our friendship with Abertone is established and who knows we could examine a kind of Gulf of Auraxis style arrangement for our gulf that would help us all. Goal number two is to see what we can do to ensure that even more nations sign the Historic Crimes Treaty. We have some noticeable nations that have yet to add their signature and that must be addressed. If one of the youngest nation on Mundus, the Theocracy of Kaitaine, can add their signature and appreciate the potential this has for us all then surely nations with much longer histories can see the benefit. The third goal is to put together a proposal to the Cultural Exchange Treaty Organisation for a real push to have historic artefacts returned. We've seen it in their charter for years but very little done to make it happen. I know David here was guilty of having stolen artefacts from Lijiang and he willingly turned them over, other nations that have an Imperial past or a privileged class with access to the wealth of exploration, colonisation and exploitation from the past need to hand stuff over.
Krista - Final question for each of you. In a recent poll the Rokkenjiman people hailed Heyra as "the greatest threat to global peace and security?" Is this an opinion you recognise as valid and who is the greatest threat to peace and security?Piripi To our north we have Heyra. If you go and visit the border between the Commonwealth and Heyra you will not see masses of fortifications, machine gun nests or minefields. Heyra are a nation that at times can be stubborn but they are a nation I respect. Trade between our lands could be so much easier and quicker for all if they had less ties with Tamora but I don't expect an unprovoked artillery shell to come our way because of this. As for what I see as the greatest threat to peace and security it would be arrogance. Nations thinking their actions are the only correct ones and that their way of life is the way of life all Mundus must follow. We've seen a counter culture to that in the past 12 months and it'll continue growing turning nations inwards.
David - Heyra are not a threat. They are a nation we've had our own falling outs with but when push comes to shove we know they are not dangerous. We've a lot of co-operative projects with them ranging from companies clearing up minefields and then using the mine free land for scientific research, our armed forces helped restore order to their capital and all our ejector seats are made there. I would find it hard to understand why anyone would say they are a threat to global peace and security. I understand the dynamic between them and Rokkenjima as at one point East Moreland and Heyra had similar problems but even then we had peace as we just let each other go our own ways. As for the greatest threat to world peace and security I don't think its a nation. I think its personalities. Take the Kaitaine situation, put a Soviet citizen and a Bene Gesserit citizen in a room together and I suspect the last thing they'd do is start fighting. As leaders it is up to us to act always in a spirit of friendship with all, but stand ready to confront those who take advantage of this friendship.
Krista - I'd like to thank the pair of you for your time and I wish you, your nations and your new Treaty all the best for the future. Please join me next week when I travel to Rayyu to interview the Emir about the Abrahamic Declaration among other things.OOC- I think the discord question drop box worked well. Except for deleting Nova's question to Piripi by accident. I think I remembered roughly what it was so forgive me Nova if I messed it up. You can begin leaving questions for the Emir in the discord as some already have. Thanks.
