Author Topic: Interfaith dialogue (Church of Mani and Church of Aschlon)  (Read 2159 times)

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Offline Markus

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Interfaith dialogue (Church of Mani and Church of Aschlon)
« on: June 21, 2020, 04:13:56 PM »

To: The Holy Church of Aschlon

To my esteemed counterpart, 

I am wittening as a representative of the Church of Mani. Our holy institution traces its roots more than a thousand years ago to the Prophet Mani. Thanks to his teachings and God’s guidance we dare admit with humility that the Tamoran Empire has been true to the teachings of our church for the last thousand years.

Our religious institution has always sought dialogue, cooperation and understanding with the Muslim faith from which we trace many of our traditions and history. We now seek to expand our dialogue with other Abrahamic religions, especially ones that share many of our values. Our theological department has spent time trying to understand your particular expression of the Christian faith and, according to their understanding, we share many in common, much more than with other expressions of Christianity that we have encountered so far. We both believe in a strict hierarchy, that some are chosen to lead and the rest to follow, we understand that this is not a choice but a commandment from God one that we must follow regardless of our personal opinions toward it. We also seem to be in agreement that a sovereign must reign over the nation just as God, the supreme sovereign, reigns over the kingdom of Heaven. We believe these common principles are a foundation towards building a constructive dialogue, one through which we hope to explain and reach a compromise stating that the practice of slavery is compatible to the teachings of your faith. 

I would also like to note that our holy institution is aware of your plight and the persecutions you are facing for standing true to your beliefs against the power and might of the Atheist government. While we do not share the same faith we respect your commitment to martyrdom and strongly condemn the actions of for Atheist government. And while we are worried and troubled deeply of incident such as the recent ricin attack, we reserve judgment for now and understand that it was an act of desperation in regards to a Mundus that has ignored your plight for too long.

Considering the aspects mentioned above, I would to invite a member of your church to Djerb, our holiest of cities, to talk in more detail about the aspects that are common to our faith, to hear your views on slavery, to inform us more about the persecutions you are facing and perhaps how we can cooperate for the betterment of God and the institutions he laid in Mundus to guide the faithful.

I look forward to your reply.

Ayatollah Najid Bolandian
Head of Interfaith Relations
Church of Mani*

*OCC: the word church is used portly on my part and is meat to mean religion organization. The Church of Mani shares many similarities with Islam (but is a different religion) and is not a Christian church. 


Offline Geo

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Re: Interfaith dialogue (Church of Mani and Church of Aschlon)
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2020, 05:08:36 PM »
To:Church of Mani

Greetings Ayatollah Najid Bolandian

The Holy Church would like to thank you for extending your hand in friendship.

We here in the Holy Church greatly admire the beliefs you portray in your worship to the Lord. Our faith is  an unusual one in comparison to the rest of Christianity, we have in our bible the chapter Ramines and Patines, the words of two prophets of which we base our beliefs on. If we dare say, our beliefs have got more in common with the Manist faith than many other popular brands of Christianity. We agree with you on many points, including the strict hierarchy that you mentioned we both possess, for man was made to be ruled by God and shepherded by his Chosen.

Our time in Aschlon is a time of pain for our faith. Our government    which we must live our lives under is outrageously religiously intolerant. Many of our most zealous preachers were executed with one of the most painful ways to die, in the mass execution of 136 religious leaders. We are amazed that the international community does not condone the Government's actions. Whilst we do not fully agree with the actions of the NACG, many of us strongly sympathize with them, for they are fighting for our beliefs against the oppressive powers of the nation. We would also like to add that the NACG doesn’t represent the rest of the Holy Church.

We would like to accept your generous offer to your city, we will decide who to send shortly. We hope that our representative can discuss our cooperation and views with you, to guide our respective beliefs to a brighter future.

We thank you for your message,

Micheal Bretu Anyt,
Head Scribe Of Archbishop Reddington
Aschlonian Holy Church.*

OOC-there are two ways you can say it, Aschlonian Holy Church or Holy Church of Aschlon. Both are correct and can be used according to preference. This is just here to avoid any confusion

Offline Markus

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Re: Interfaith dialogue (Church of Mani and Church of Aschlon)
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2020, 08:06:39 PM »
The Church of Mani(CoM) had never taken much interest in other religions except for the other Abrahamic religions and more recently the Bene Gesserit. CoM was strict in its monotheism and in a mostly polytheistic Mundus that meant religious dialogue impossible for them. And even with the other Abrahamic religions, dialogue was difficult since it was the opinion CoM that the other faiths had changed their teachings so suite the times while the other faiths were reluctant to engage with CoM because of CoM’s unapologetic stance on slavery.

So when the hierarchy of CoM found out of the Holy Church of Aschlon(HCA) they were most interested. Here it was an Abrahamic religion that embraced hierarchy the same as CoM and seemed it could potentially consider slavery as morally acceptable, something which many in the hierarchy CoM wanted since CoM was currently alone in Mundus on its stance of slavery.
 
Ayatollah Najid Bolandian was charged to represent CoM during the exploratory talks with the HCA. He and his team handled the paperwork necessary to provide the guests with the visas to enter Tamora. A letter of recommendation signed by him in the name of the CoM and sent to the Foreign Affairs Office of Tamora was enough to get the guests visas extremely fast. They also made arrangements so that airport officials treated them as foreign diplomats allowing them to skip lines and not wait in the very busy Djerb international airport.  Once they finished the formalities and exited the airport, a few limousines were waiting for them outside to take them to the Prophet’s Grace Hotel, the best hotel that the CoM owned in Djerb. While not the most luxurious of Djerb’s hotels it was definitely among the top ten.


The lobby of the hotel, like most Tamoran hotels, was lavishly decorated.  It of course featured several portraits of the Prophet Mani as well as the Tamoran flag.


The receptionist welcoming the guests.

Afterwards,  the hotel staff made all the necessary arrangements so that the foreign guests receive their accommodation.

At noon, Ayatollah Najid Bolandian together with a few other imams arrived at the hotel for the schedule meeting with the foreign guests. Najid had been at the hotel many times before and as a high representative of the CoM the staff was well aware of whom he was. He proceeded to go to the reception desk where the receptionist immediately recognized him and greeted him. As he didn’t want to be late to the scheduled meeting he got to the point straight away:

“I trust the guests are well taken care of. See to it that they have everything they need. Should they want to visit the city provide them an escort. Is the meeting room ready? We will be going there right away.”

The questions were more like orders and the receptionist answered with “Yes, Your Excellency”.


The meeting room where Najid Bolandian was to meet the delegate(s) from Aschlon was lavishly decorated and the best meeting room the hotel had to offer

The hotel staff guided the foreign delegate(s) to the meeting room. Once they entered the room, Najid Bolandian greeted them:


Ayatollah Najid Bolandian of the Church of Mani

“Welcome to Tamora, dear guests.  I am Ayatollah Najid Bolandian and I will be representing the Church of Mani during our talks which God willing will provide with an interesting perspective into each other faiths.

Please tell me if you need any refreshments or anything that the hotel servants can bring you. “

Offline Geo

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Re: Interfaith dialogue (Church of Mani and Church of Aschlon)
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2020, 11:58:25 PM »
Father Robert Walter, Earc of Aschlon and the second most important figure of the Aschlonian Church, hated aeroplanes. They left him stiff and sore, and the one from Aschlon to Tamora was no different.
Ever since they had received the message from the Church of Mani the Cathedral of St. James had been host to all sorts of rumours on who would be sent. He had been amazed at the speed of which the Holy Church received their visas to Tamora, but snapped his mouth shut when he was told who was to be going. Unfortunately, it had been he who had been sent on the long journey to Tamora, his head muffled and his legs achings as he stepped off the plane into the warm sun. He had been guided to the venue in which they would meet the Church of Mani's representatives, idly looking round as his scribes whispered excitedly behind him. 
However, when he saw the inside of the Prophet’s Grace Hotel his jaw dropped. He was used to the few remaining Gothic cathedrals the Holy Church still possessed, and he stared in amazement at the luxury and the beauty of the place. He enjoyed the rest of the morning sleeping, with his scribes waking him sometime before the staff arrived to guide them to their meeting.
He and his delegation of scribes entered the room, nodding politely to their Tamoran hosts. Robert glanced them up and down, comparing their garb of office briefly before stepping forward with a smile.
“It is brilliant to meet you Ayatollah Bolandian. I too hope we can foster an understanding.” He glanced once more round the room appraisingly,
“We need no refreshments, service here has been excellent, though a drink of water would be nice.”
He took a seat and crossed his legs, his scribes awkwardly standing behind him, as he beckoned for the Tamorans to be seated.
“So,” he said pleasantly, “lets get started shall we?”

Offline Markus

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Re: Interfaith dialogue (Church of Mani and Church of Aschlon)
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2020, 05:26:57 PM »
"I believe we should each begin my saying a few things about what it is at the core at our faith as to give the other side a general idea and a starting point for discussions. Allow me to start:

Our church traces its roots to Islam one thousand years ago. Our Prophet was a practicing Muslim and he referenced the Quran often. The first followers of our Prophet considered themselves Muslim and not part of a different religion. They considered they were part of a different school of thought, one that had access to the teaching of the Prophet Mani but that they were fully Muslim. That makes even today Manist identity connected to Islam. It’s hard to summarize the whole theology of a religion but I would say that on that Muslim background what sets us apart is a strong belief that God has ordained a hierarchy for society to function not as we might want but how He wants. That includes, a sovereign to lead, nobles to help him, clergymen to preserve and protect the morality of society, free people to be lead and serfs and slaves to listen to their masters. Each individual has a role to play so that society will function according to His will. Just as society is governed so must each individual family, with the head of the family leading the family as the sovereign leads the nation and the wife or wives and children having a duty to obey. We believe polygamy is valid but is only allowed by those high in the hierarchy who can provide for several wives. We believe serfdom and slavery are part of the society that God wants for us and abolishing it not only goes against His word but also infringes on the dignity of free people as it makes them the lowest of class should those two be abolished.  I would say that Tamora is a good representation for the society that the Prophet Mani told us that God envisioned. It is not perfect or fully aligned with every one of his teachings but it is close and we are proud that. So for a practical experience on what Manism is in everyday life, Tamora is a good representation of that.

I would like to hear your opinion about what Holy Church of Aschlon stands for, especially the teaching of Ramines, your views on slavery and polygamy. Of course, if you have any questions, please do ask. "
 



Offline Geo

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Re: Interfaith dialogue (Church of Mani and Church of Aschlon)
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2020, 06:17:05 PM »
Walter cleared his throught before beginning.
"Our version of the Christian faith is based off the Book of Ramines, a part of our Bible. It follows the communication between God and Ramines, with the latter writing down his musings and what the Lord explained to him. It explains many things, including the reasons behind our creation, but more importantly the heirachy between all creatures of God. At the top we have the Lord, and just below him we have the King, a man chosen by the Lord to lead in his name. Below them we have the Priests and the Prophets, those able to discern and hear the words of the Lord. Below them we have the worshippers, those that follow the Lord without any speciality. The final tier is often simplified to "unbeleivers", but in truth it is more complicated. At the top of that tier we have those of other faiths, next we have the loyal animals of the Lord, as described in Ramines, mainly the horse, the cow and the dog; below them those that reject all beleif, mainly atheists and agnostics; and on the final tier we have all other animal life. It is unknown when Ramines became part of our Bible, but it has been as there long as we can remember. Our beleifs centre around the Lord's will, discerning it and carrying it out, usually under orders of a King. Of course we have no such King now, thanks to the tyranny of the Hootofts. Slavery has never been attempted by the Holy Church, we tend to focus on a feudal system, however slavery is not out of the question. The greater you are on the heirachy, the best off you should be, even if that is on the expense of others. Polygamy is certainly possible, though it should go without saying, our faith will always be our highest priority. There is another thing. God did not create us to be happy. He created us to carry about his will. I do have a question, however. How is slavery decided? How is it chosen who commands and who serves?"

Offline Markus

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Re: Interfaith dialogue (Church of Mani and Church of Aschlon)
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2020, 09:28:44 PM »
“That is very interesting. We have not heard of the Book of Ramines before Aschlon emerged from isolation and it has intrigued many in our religious community.

As far as slavery in concerned, the Book of Mani and the traditions preceding it clearly state that it is a just form of punishment. It is also states that enslavement in permissible in instance of war. So when a party has been wronged, say an extreme form of violence or abuse has been committed then the victim is entitled to the freedom of the perpetrator. The same is true when the victim has died as the heirs are entitled to claim the freedom of the perpetrator. The same is true for debts, if one takes debt and cannot repay the creditor is entitled to the last asset the borrower has: his freedom. Think of the rich and powerful businessmen in Mundus that have wronged their customers, were sued and then their company went bankrupt and we never heard anything of it. The Book of Mani has a prescription for that, is says how any trader is liable for the goods he trades. In Tamora even the mightiest of businessmen can lose their freedom should they behave unethical.

The Book of Mani also speaks about those that were born in slavery and thus they have not wronged anyone.  It explains that their toil and suffering is not on the hands of their just masters but on their parents and grandparents that have wronged and have caused their enslavement. It also states that since a slave is not free and must follow a master then he, unless he rebels, will reach Paradise (Jannah). Unlike what some foreign powers want people to believe, we do not glorify slavery but accept it as a fact of life and part of the society out Prophet laid out a millennium ago. 

I am pleased to see that many of the values our faith shares are also values that either your church shares or at least they do not come in opposition with them. Outside of MidAranye we have found that to be a rare occurrence.   
 
I would to propose that we agree to the creation of a joint international theological commission that will feature theologians and other scholars from both our faiths that would analyze in details the Book of Ramines and the Book Mani and the traditions surrounding them. The aim of the of this commission would be to search and see where our doctrines and traditions align and perhaps lead in the long run to a mutual recognition of some of the covenants like marriage. Would such a proposal be agreeable?

You mentioned Aschlon lacks a king, what happened to the royal family? Are they in exile or have all been executed by the Atheist government?  Also, could you detail more who these Hootofts are ?

And if I may also ask, how is the daily life of a faithful of the Aschlonian Holy Church? Does the government actively persecute the faithful?”


Offline Geo

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Re: Interfaith dialogue (Church of Mani and Church of Aschlon)
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2020, 09:10:16 PM »
An international commission would be wonderful. For years our scholars and scribes have toiled to find the origins of Ramines, and a new perspective would not be disagreeable. Whoever, though we can supply our end of the deal, we cannot easily expect the Government to nod and let us. They are determined to slow down all religious growth in Aschlon, and will go to any lengths!
 
As for Aschlon's king? Nearly a decade ago now, the people of Hootoft City, our capital and a place with  almost half the population calling it home, declared war against their rightful Monarch, Henry II. He unfortunately lost the ensuing civil war, him and his family being brutally executed by invaders storming his home. He watched as his family and most faithful followers died in front of him, before he himself was shot. The Hootofts in their Hootoft Revolutionary Army took control of the country, leading to a 7 or so year gap of them testing the limits of what they could do, before settling on the current government. The Lord’s rightfully chosen blood line is sadly dead.
 
The current life of a faithful is a sad one. All places of worship are guarded by fully armed ASSO agents, who take down the names of those entering. It is illegal for any open followers to join the armed forces, the police force or ASSO, and is much harder for them to find jobs. You may have heard about the execution of 136 various religious leaders with the accusations of working with terrorists? None of those men that died were guilty, it was just murder hidden under a cloak of justice. Over 30,000 watched and cheered the murder of these innocent men. Whilst we cannot claim that we are the only religious sufferers, we are by far the worst off. Our voice is often ignored, with it being barely heard overseas.

We would like a commission, it would help shed the mysteries on Ramine’s origins, and may even help raise awareness of our plight against the injustice of these persecutions.

Offline Markus

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Re: Interfaith dialogue (Church of Mani and Church of Aschlon)
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2020, 12:57:49 PM »
“I can speak in the name of our Church that your agreement to form this commission pleases us greatly. As a sign of goodwill we are prepared to offer the support of our modest church in any way we can so that you might find the origins of Ramines.

As for the persecutions you are describing I can only say that they disturb us deeply. I am ashamed that our government has not reacted in any way to them. I will personally call our government and make sure they informed of what is happening in your country. We cannot do miracles but we can make sure Mundus hears of what is happening in Aschlon and shames the “government” if I can even call it that”.

Najid stopped for a few moments to compose himself as the described state of affairs in Aschlon had greatly angered him.

“What I am going to say I will say as a man who is not of your faith. You’ve told me here today that God created Earth under a hierarchy and that just below God there is His king and below him the religious leaders. What the Hootofts have done is not just regicide but an affront to God’s ordained order. That is of course on their hands but I believe, and again I say this as a man who is not of your church, that Aschlonian Church needs to either find a new family to lead that is faithful to God’s teaching and pleases God or accepts that the royal family is dead and that the hierarchy will forever have to include the religious leaders at the top, preferably with one assuming the role of the king, a theocracy.  While the godless government might seem all-powerful now and its victory forever secure God is stronger than all them. Your church has been purified by the persecutions of your government, the members who practice your faith today would rather face persecution than not attend service and anger God. I have to wonder, how many of my flock would come to temple for service knowing that the government will take down the names of those entering, that it would be harder for them to find jobs, that they would be banned from the armed forces? I cannot say for sure but in your case you know, those that are with you today will follow you anywhere. As long as you have that there is hope for your nation that it will return to God. I am just a humble Ayatollah but I believe that it is no mere coincidence that God has seen that our religions, which share many values, are to come into contact when one is at its height and the other during its darkest time. I think God is has a plan that involves both our religions.
 
So if you believe there is something we can do to help, please tell us and I will inform the leadership of our church. While our church has modest means we might be able to help. “

Offline Geo

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Re: Interfaith dialogue (Church of Mani and Church of Aschlon)
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2020, 12:20:33 PM »
Walter smiled in his weary way.

“Thank you for your offer of help. Sadly, I cannot speak for the entirety of the Church, I would need permission from the Arch-Bishop before I could accept the offer of support against the government.” He frowned briefly. “And I doubt he would ever allow it. The Arch-Bishop is a conformist. He would rather allow us to live under oppression then question the government. He has condoned the action of the NACG, which are one of the few organisations trying to
gain our freedom. He refuses to speak out.”

 He paused and considered something for a second.

“I will tell you a secret.” He nodded to his scribes, telling them to stop transcription the conversation. “The royal family is not entirely dead. The bastard son of our late king yet lives. It was a secret limited to the upper level of the Church, but the Arch-Bishop foolishly informed ASSO of his existence, he is currently in ASSO’s hands, and could be dead. It is an important secret, I hope you will keep my trust.”

He sighed and pushed his glasses further up his nose, whilst nodding to his scribes, indicating the transcription to resume.

“When I get back to Aschlon, I will inform the Arch-Bishop of your offer. Unfortunately, whilst he controls the Church, not much can be done.”