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A Letter to East Moreland
« on: January 27, 2021, 03:55:37 PM »

A Letter to East Moreland

To: King David of East Moreland

Your Majesty, my good friend, in recent times our two nations have stood shoulder to shoulder on many issues, during many challenging times of crisis, we've fostered a strong friendship between our nations and we strongly respect each others view, even when we've disagreed on the issue at hand. One of the most significant things I believe we can be proud of is our record of being able to work our way around a problem when combining our efforts. It is this particular ability that brings me to write this letter to you, as you will be aware in the summer of last year the citizens of the island of Awhaele voted in a free and fair referendum to be governed as an Achkaerinese territory, with the transition of status of the island now finalized meetings concerning the territory have turned to the future in particular engagement with its neighbours in Alba Karinya and the Illumic. Some of these proposals concern suggestions of membership in the AKO, MICA and Illumic Council - something which I believe is in the best interests of the people living on the island however East Moreland's position on this sort of issue is well known.

As such I would like to meet with you to discuss this matter and see if we can iron out an idea or arrangement concerning this. I am due for surgery in East Moreland in the next forty eight hours, I will be available to discuss this following the operation or should it be more convenient I can arrange for a representative to meet with you earlier.

In friendship,

Emperor Peter Azurewind

Offline DaveIronside

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Re: A Letter to East Moreland
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2021, 09:09:28 PM »

To:- Emperor Peter

The decision made by the people of Awahle has left me in a difficult position. On the one hand my position of supporting the self determination of nations would mean that I would support the inclusion of Awhaele in such organisations as the ones you have mentioned. On the other hand however my stance on having the natives of the Illumic and Mhorish control the destiny of those regions is also a well documented. We therefore would like to explore a way forward where I can be confident that Achkaerin is not handed influence in a region where the people of Achkaerin do not have a say in the region while not excluding the Faejeon who are native to the region.

I am confident that your operation will be a success as mine currently feels to be. As such when you feel like you are able I shall meet you at Ostlake Castle. where we can discuss the situation and exchange notes on our recoveries.

May The Gods Watch Over You and Your Health Be Strong

King David III of East Moreland,.

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Re: A Letter to East Moreland
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2021, 07:44:25 PM »
Ostlake was, at least as far as he could remember, somewhere that Emperor Peter hadn't been to before, he was familiar with Northfort and Portworth and a few other places that he'd visited, usually while spending a few days at Highwick Manor - the property in East Moreland that he owned. Ostlake was unfamiliar to the Achkaerinese Emperor but not necessarily to Achkaerin in more general terms, Achkaerinese soldiers had competed in the Ostlake Military Games, Peter's goddaughter's girlfriend had forged her sword here and during the regency crisis a few years ago an Achkaerinese ship had sailed its way into town. To some extent it was perhaps fair to say that it was here that the strong Achkaerinese-Morelander relationship had been forged. Accompanying Peter on this trip to Ostlake was Siora Qivalur, the Faejeon Queen. To some extent the task seemed an easy one - come up with an agreement that got Awhaele and by association the Faejeon included in the region, but it was likely not going to be so simple, negotiations like this seldom were. Still he was optimistic about this resulting in something positive.

As they arrived at Ostlake Castle, Peter smiled at Siora this was her first time in East Moreland.

"They do like their castles don't they?" Siora asked
"Yes they do." Peter said leading her towards the entrance.

Offline DaveIronside

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Re: A Letter to East Moreland
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2021, 08:11:45 PM »
Ostlake Castle had been built in the 13th Century by King Fraser I. It had a position allowing it to control the road that ran into the city which took its name from the lake while also giving a view over the lake. It was a series of such fortifications that ran around the area that had given Ostlake its place in East Moreland history as its military heartland.  The castle today was a combination of a tourist attraction, occasional royal residence and film prop. For now it had been closed to the public as it was intended that the Royals may utilise the venue during the Ostlake Film Festival, it was also close to where the King and now Emperor Peter had gone under the knife. The key now for King David's recovery was to try and rebuild muscle where previously there had been a mess. The King had started going on a daily row with three or four of his security detail with a small naval patrol boat following along behind. The day had started off with a quick row and as they arrived back at the small landing ramp and helped put their boat away before grabbing a quick shower. The men who had crewed the Naval patrol boat had been press ganged into providing the official welcome.


David was unsure about this meeting. On the one hand he liked Peter yet on the other hand he was concerned that the aim of him being here was to get a non-native influence in the Illumic which was something he had worked to eliminate for a long time. In that respect it was more the young Faejeon Queen that David had an interest in. As the duo arrived the ten man naval contingent lined the road into the small courtyard into which the vehicles would park. It was the duty of Quinn Germaine, the King's Chief of Royal Household to open the car door and allow King David to greet both the guests. "Emperor Peter" David extended his hand, "I hope you've been taken care of over at the hospital. Fingers crossed your recovery goes as well as mine. You need to start hitting the gym the next few days" David advised, his own rehab had started just 24 hours later but being on the back he had little choice other than to use it. David then turned to the young Queen. "And welcome to East Moreland Your Majesty" David said, "I hope that you've had a pleasant trip so far." The King lead the way inside and to a room that overlooked the Lake. Had it been summer David would have liked to have sat outside on the balcony but the brisk winter morning didn't really make it that inviting. The King had arranged three rather large arm chairs around a central table with the fire place on the forth side. Next to each chair was a long toasting fork and on the table among the trays of bread and various other savouries were flasks of tea and coffee. "I thought a spot of breakfast while we talk" David picked up a slice of bread and fixed to his fork holding it close to the fire while he began to speak.

"The connection between Achkaerin and East Moreland is well documented. With respect then in terms of diplomacy at this point I think they're is little me and Peter have to discuss, unless he's bringing some top secret information to my doorstep. If that's the case then I'd suggest we get a few more people in here." David smiled, " However things have obviously changed in the last few months, the situation with your own domain" David was addressing his talk to Siora, "Well its a difficult one. Normally me and you would have come to some agreement between our two nations however we've now got the added situation of you being so closely connected to Achkaerin and this muddies the waters some what. So perhaps a good starting point would be for the two of you to make it clear to me about the way your nations are going to interact from here on in." By now David's bread had become toast and he sliced off a piece of cheese before folding the bread around it and taking a bite giving his guests a chance to fill him in.

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Re: A Letter to East Moreland
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2021, 12:39:52 AM »
"Yes so I'm told." Peter said in regards to the gym reference, smiling when David greeted him "Esme's already got me signed up to one of her many fitness program's."

Siora meanwhile smiled "Very pleasant Your Majesty." she said

As they sat down Peter nodded when David finished speaking "I'll put you at ease David." he said "I'm not carrying anything of that sort, my reason for being here is to clarify if required anything in regards to that very question you asked about the Achkaerin - Awhaele relationship and then with your leave I will go and get some fresh air while you two talk specifics and if you need to get me back for anything I'm sure you can."

"The best way of describing the Achkaerin - Awhaele is to reference the relationship between Achkaerin and Gowu." Siora said proving somewhat adept with the toasting fork "Awhaele is an Achkaerinese territory but has a lot of devolved powers, we have our own Parliament, we can make our own laws on a lot of things, we get our own budget, we will be electing thirty senators to the Achkaerinese Senate. As we're an Achkaerinese territory some pre-existing Achkaerinese laws do apply we're talking about international treaties such as the MCUR, Uppsalla Convention, FSC and so on. There is of course a point at which the Awhaele competency ends or to put in a more common phrase there is a point where things go above Awhaele's pay grade, those areas are concerned with defence and intelligence, which is identical to the relationship between Achkaerin and Gowu."

"Let me just explain what that means in relation to anything in the region." Peter said "At all times you will be talking to Siora or a representative that she will empowered to appoint, Achkaerin will not intervene in the region unless something along the lines of for example an invasion of Awhaele or a humanitarian crisis on Awhaele were to happen or similar in respect of Rishiri. I personally will not be involved unless my constitutional responsibility requires it, that will solely be due to the military competency."

Offline DaveIronside

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Re: A Letter to East Moreland
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2021, 07:09:32 PM »
"With regards to fresh air we've plenty of that. Feel free to head wherever you need to, I think you know the way around Ostlake" David spoke to Peter and then turned to Siora.

"I am still uncertain where I would stand. Its all well and good the Emperor saying you have devolved powers, I am though not keen to see the influence of nations who are not from the Illumic have any here. I'm sad to say I've seen Achkaerin influence situations in Ardia through Gowu and so saying the same wouldn't happen in the Illumic is not reassuring. What I would like to know Queen Siora is what your policies on the Illumic are. We've seen in recent months Achkaerin make comments about potential blockades on Illumic nations. WHat is your view on this? A blockade is a military matter, when it comes to us discussing a response to a potential navy from outside the Illumic blockading an Illumic nation it would be Peter's decision and not yours. Can you reassure me they'd not go against the decisions of the Council."

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Re: A Letter to East Moreland
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2021, 08:28:57 PM »
"My policies for the Illumic are to build a lasting peaceful relationship with my neighbours, I'd personally like to see certain questions resolved, the Heyran habit of trading on principles for one. But the priority for me is to ensure a safe and peaceful introduction for Awhaele into this community." Siora said

"My view is that slavery and human trafficking, the latter being without question part of the former, are things that need to be dealt with, do I believe a blockade is the right approach to that? No." Siora said "However Your Majesty with all due respect nowhere do I believe that the word 'blockade' was used in any capacity by the Achkaerinese Government and I don't believe the Zimalian Government used it either, in fact I believe it was referred to as a disruption to shipping. To answer the final part of your question though, I'm going to try to word this correctly, I can assure you that Achkaerin would not commit to a response that went against the Council's wishes in such a situation."

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Re: A Letter to East Moreland
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2021, 10:52:22 PM »
"And with all due respect I've been around the military nearly two decades. To carry out the visiting of ships you'd need to effectively blockade Zimalia otherwise the act has no impact and its pointless. That however is not the point. The issue is however that I wouldn't feel comfortable admitting you as a member unless we come up with some formal safeguard ensuring that Achkaerin do not have membership via the backdoor. I have been on the record for many years about the nations of the Illumic being the ones in control. I'm not about to support the precedent of a non-Illumic nation utilising their connection to acquired territory here to open a back-door. So what can be put in place so that rather than me accepting just your assurances I have something concrete after all to become a member you're going to need the votes of several other nations, I suspect Zimalia will not support your membership meaning if you get Seaforth, which is quiet likely, you're still one vote short of getting admission at the moment. "

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Re: A Letter to East Moreland
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2021, 02:19:04 AM »
Siora half smiled this was the sort of thing she and Peter had talked extensively about on their journey to Ostlake "Something concrete?" she asked "Ok, rather than the usual straight up vote to admit as a member you consider a more detailed resolution that if passed admits Awhaele but also defines how this whole thing would work. Perhaps something like this that myself and Peter will sign."

Quote from: Draft Resolution

Upon the successful passage of this resolution the Achkaerinese territory of Awhaele shall be admitted to MICA/AKO/COIN (delete as appropriate) under the following terms.

For the AKO

Section II.2 - In respect of Awhaele the term "Head of State" shall for the purposes of the organisation's charter and duties, refer to the title holder of the Faejeon monarchy

Section II.6 - In respect of Awhaele the term "Head of Government" shall for the purposes of the organisations charter and duties, refer to the First Minister of Awhaele. For the purposes of the organisations charter and duties the term "appointed person" shall be either a member of the Faejeon High Council.

Section III.2(a) - the term "national law" to mean law applied within Awhaele.

Section IV - For the purposes of this section the obligations shall apply to Awhaele not Achkaerin.

Section V.1 - Goods exported by Awhaele to other AKO members will be required to show a certificate of origin from Awhaele.

Section VI.1 - This article shall only apply for trips inbound to Awhaele from other AKO members.

Section VII.2 - The parties obligation shall only apply in respect of an attack on Awhaele (defined as the island territory including waters and airspace), there shall be no obligation (within the context of the AKO) to respond to an attack on other Achkaerinese soil.

Section VIII.1 - The term nation in the context of the article to refer to Awhaele.

Section IX.1 - Members of the AKO shall be welcome to open consular offices in Cyalona, Awhaele. A specific Awhaele Attache shall be appointed to each Achkaerinese embassy on Alba Karinya to serve as the point of contact.

Section X.1 - This section only applies to the territory of Awhaele not Achkaerin.

For MICA

Article 5 - The section in its entirety only to apply to travel to the territory of Awhaele not Achkaerin, however article (d) shall be observed by Awhaele on outbound trips.

Article 6 - Members of MICA shall be welcome to open consular offices in Cyalona, Awhaele. A specific Awhaele Attache shall be appointed to each Achkaerinese embassy in MICA member nations to serve as the point of contact. In respect of Awhaele the term "Head of State" shall refer to the Faejeon monarch and the term "Head of Government shall refer to the First Minister of Awhaele.

Article 7 - The term "Cultural Event" shall be understood to mean a Faejeon event.

Terms such as "host nation", "MICA nation" and so on only apply to Awhaele and not Achkaerin.


For the Illumic Council

The term "Member nation" and other such terminology to be taken as meaning Awhaele.

Article 4.2 - For the purposes of any goods exported from Awhaele a certificate of origin from Awhaele is required for this provision to apply.

Article 6.2 - High schools involved in the program will be on Awhaele.

Article 6.3 - A student from Awhaele must have the necessary high school qualifications from an Awhaele high school to participate in the program.

Articles 7 and 8 - The competencies of these articles fall to Achkaerin. The Achkaerinese Crown will undertake to respect and abide by the decisions of the Illumic Council. Article 7.3 shall only apply in respect of attacks on the territory of Awhaele. For the purposes of article 8.4 Achkaerin shall not be considered a "non Illumic military force" unless pertaining to a major exercise[1]
 1. may need reworking but trying to distinguish between sending a couple of squads of troops to do survival training and a large scale military exercise.

Offline DaveIronside

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Re: A Letter to East Moreland
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2021, 11:44:28 PM »
"While this is a good step forward I can see two major issues. The first is that I'm in no position to say yes to this, I can merely say that I support the idea but perhaps we need to examine some of the articles that you've put forward. The other issue is while this may from a legal stand-point make sense the issue is we all know that influence can be exerted in many ways beyond just who has their name on a piece of paper. My concern is that we can end up with a situation where Awhaele is left with only certain avenues open to it because of its tie to Achkaerin."

It was time to turn to the articles. "There are some issues and clarifications needed"

AKO

Section II.6 - In respect of Awhaele the term "Head of Government" shall for the purposes of the organisations charter and duties, refer to the First Minister of Awhaele. For the purposes of the organisations charter and duties the term "appointed person" shall be either a member of the Faejeon High Council. - "This seems like two options will be given the High Council or something not named."

Section IV - With Emperor Peter being responsible for foreign policy decisions there is likely to come times that will see disputes needing to be worked out by him and not yourself, as such we see a clash between you saying this part will only apply to your province however does that not require a change to the agreement that was reached via your referendum?"

Section VI.1 - "With Achkaerin being part of the CSTO and therefore now by extension that applying to you we will need more than a simple certificate of origin. Under such arrangements there would be the possibility of any goods from the CSTO nations passing to Awhaele and then having some final touches put in place, then a certificate of origin being issued. This is not something we naturally would support we therefore need more safeguards in place. "

"There is also the issue that Awhaele have no military of their own therefore can not fulfil any obligations of the defence aspects of the charter.

"As for X.1 to my understanding with Emperor Peter being responsible for your Foreign Policy decisions we can not be certain that the Emperor would not enter into treaties that would go against the AKO. This would therefore apply to you as the Emperor is making your foreign policy."

MICA

"As you're no doubt aware the MICA charter recently saw the creation of a system of Rapid Reaction Areas if you were admitted as a member that would mean one of two options. The first is that we would need to cut you out of this system however this is in my view unfair on the others in the membership, the other option is that the obligation would need to be fulfilled by Achkaerin forces which goes against my belief that the Illumic in particular should be controlled by forces from the Illumic."

ILLUMIC COUNCIL


"The idea of the economic issuing of certificates of origin faces the same problem as with the AKO.

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Re: A Letter to East Moreland
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2021, 03:09:22 AM »
Siora took a moment "I can give some clarifications as to the intent of the proposal and hopefully satisfy some of your concerns." she said

AKO

Section II.6 - this article sets out who can be in attendance at meetings as the lead delegate so to speak, given the concern of Achkaerinese influence it's our intent to make sure that you don't have sat at the table an Achkaerinese Royal, member of the Valtheim government or someone not of Awhaele. Which is why we wanted to define that the dealings will absolutely in the context be either with myself as the Awhaele head of state, the democratically elected First Minister of Awhaele as head of government who we will know the identity of on the 4th of March or an appointed person who will either be a member of the Faejeon High Council or a member of the First Minister's cabinet.[1]

Section IV -  believe that this article is satisfied if we have an understanding of what constitutes a threat to the 'continents' peace, security, and justice' is, I believe we would both interpret that to be a credible and verified threat and not 'something has happened, Achkaerin is involved in it therefore they must settle it peacefully'.

Section VI.1 - Achkaerin's membership of the CSU[2] I believe what may be more useful here is if you suggested what safeguards you might want to see in this regard.

As far as military goes yes Awhaele doesn't have a military of its own however I would point to the same guarantee offered to the Illumic Council here, Peter can undertake to abide by the decision of the AKO when it comes to the application of military force. However the point that was made in relation the artlcle I cited VII.2 was that it would be in the event of for example an attack on the city Alnor in Awhaele that the article is triggered not if the attack was on Valtheim. It's not acceptable to expect the AKO membership to be obligated to respond to an attack on land not on the continent, an attack in Elysium wouldn't trigger it so an attack in Valtheim shouldn't.

X.1 - I can't be certain as in 100% true however when Achkaerin negotiates treaties there is both before and at the end of the process a meeting in which I'm present, the First Minister is present, the Chief Councillor of Gowu is present along with all the legal minds and we go through with the Emperor and depending on when it happens those handling the negotiations whether we would contradict existing obligations, what the red lines might be and so on. I don't think I need to impress on you the high regard Achkaerin places on abiding by that which it signs. I also believe that if you had reason to believe Achkaerin had entered into a treaty that did in some way contradict the AKO that you could contact the Emperor and discuss it and I'm sure it would get rectified quickly.

MICA

"The RRA's I believe it's called is something I'm aware of, I would be happy to leave to MICA which of those options it wishes to pursue in the event of admission. Alternatively Achkaerin does have a strong working history with Seaforth so potentially what we could do is expand the Seaforthian zone up to the edge of Awhaele's EEZ, Achkaerinese vessels could then coordinate with Seaforth in that zone, it's still the Seaforthian zone so control over that zone remains with the Illumic while also allowing membership participation."

Illumic Council

"Again on certificates on origin I would welcome suggestions as to the safeguards you have in mind as if we can apply them to the AKO we can apply them here."
 1. OOC - my bad I thought I'd completed the original sentence in the article to name the cabinet.
 2. OOC - I presume this was what was meant as CSU is economic and CSTO is defence

Offline DaveIronside

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Re: A Letter to East Moreland
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2021, 05:35:07 PM »
"The concern we have is not limited to who is sat at the table. Under the conditions of what you have agreed to following the referendum you have handed over all of the power in terms of foreign policy to Emperor Peter. Regardless of who you personally send to any meetings it is Achkaerin who will dictate ultimately what you are able to agree to. This is the concern that must be overcome and so far I'm yet to see any way we can get around this. It will be Emperor Peter who will be signing the charter should the other member nations agree to your admission as you are sovereign territory of the Empire."

"For us to be able to suggest a way forward in terms of certificate of origin and trade they matter would be for your businesses to prove.  Whatever we suggest you need to be able to ensure that it happens. The process I'd suggest is likely to be an extremely lengthy one and any condition would probably have to apply to all member nations of the organisation therefore we've an issue there. We would need to have a system where each step of a goods manufacturing process is signed off in the state it is done in. I'm not sure you'd find other member nations willing to add complexities.

"As for the military issue then imagine a situation like the Achkaerin threat on action over human trafficing. There is reason to suggest that these organisations would have stepped in to take action to prevent any Achkaerin intervention. So we have therefore a scenario where Achkaerin's foreign policy is determined by the Illumic Council in what you propose. Its not about us being asked to defend Achkaerin in Aranye, its about the fact that you as Awahele can not fulfil obligations of the treaty in terms of protecting other regional nations.

The concerns we have will be ones shared by the other nations no doubt and it is going to be difficult for you to convince them that there can't be outside influence from Achkaerin when by response to the human traffiking issue Emperor Peter pointed out you are sovereign Achkaerin territory. I'm therefore yet to see anything that makes me think that admission of Awahele is anything other than allowing Achkaerin in.

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Re: A Letter to East Moreland
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2021, 07:03:39 PM »
Had she not been talking with a Head of State Siora was fairly certain she would have rolled her eyes by now, she'd wanted to try and firewall Achkaerin out of the situation but apparently that wasn't going to happen so for her to get anything that now meant limiting the damage.

"The critical point here from my point of view is that we don't disenfranchise the people who live on Awhaele simply because of a choice they made while exercising their right to choose their own future. However I understand your concern, if we're going to go the route of saying that Awhaele can't satisfy the criteria then the only remaining option is for Peter to write up letters to these three organisations applying for observer membership in the AKO, Associate membership in the Illumic Council and probably a proposal of a similar status within MICA. That is an appropriate position it gives Awhaele the benefits and the engagement with the region it would as you say be Achkaerin applying and potentially being admitted however Achkaerin would not if admitted under those terms have the voting rights of members like East Moreland, so the decision making remains with the native nations. If we're saying that for Awhaele to be in that you have to admit Achkaerin then that's the compromise position, Achkaerin does undeniably meet all the criteria for membership under those terms. So that's all that's left in light of what you've said unless we can think of a way to include Awhaele without Achkaerin, something you don't believe possible judging off this conversation."

Offline DaveIronside

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Re: A Letter to East Moreland
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2021, 07:45:49 PM »
"It must have been something that was brought up as a gamble when the referendum took place. Out of the Illumic nations alone East Moreland, Seaforth, Zimalia and even Heyra have been very vocal in the past about the Illumic nations being the ones to make Illumic policy. Awhaele sits at the very North of the Illumic and I suspect a case could be made that your a Northern Ocean nation that sits on the doorstep of the Illumic and not in it although that is a view I don't take. Now it surely must have been, or at least should have been, a discussion that a lot of Illumic nations would view the move of Awhaele selecting to become part of Achkaerin could have this impact. My own opposition in the past to Rokkenjima being a member of these organisations via Rihisi was well documented as was Seaforths. The result of the referendum puts us in a position where someone born in Awhaele would by my reckoning be an Illumic native but their government is not. Its a situation rather unique. Now I can see a way forward but it would need a wholesale change in your relationship with Achkaerin. Why do we not have an arrangement where Awhaele is granted command of its own detachment of the military. You see in some nations the concept of milita's, for example Bakkermaya have a system where each of the Dukedoms allow the Duke or Duchess to maintain a small force for deployment within their own borders. A similar situation would therefore see Awhaele have the ability to fulfil their military requirements of the charters. Meanwhile in terms of trade that is a scenario you need to find a route forward with."

"Now if you look for observer membership, or the various alternative named forms of membership you will still face the potential hurdles of nations in the Illumic that have taken offence at Achkaerin's recent stances. If though that's the route you want to go down I think it likely you may struggle even then. Have you considered a kind of EM/CSU style arrangement with the various organisations. The big stumble you face now is that each organisation will be forced to create special exemptions and rules to admit you making the charter basically a pick n mix menu rather than a unified charter. A treaty between Achkaerin and these bodies would be a way around that."

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Re: A Letter to East Moreland
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2021, 12:02:44 AM »
Siora paused for a moment contemplating how to answer this particular point, it was something that might make sense to an outsider but to the Faejeon the notion of a militia was not good, the history of Awhaele was littered with small scale conflicts between the nineteen Faejeon settlements, over a myriad of ridiculous justifications. She looked at David.

"In terms of militia's, that arrangement doesn't exist for a couple reasons, they may be viewed positively in places such as Bakkermaya but in Awhaele they aren't. Historically  each of the nineteen Faejeon chiefs has had their own village warriors so to speak, people who'd protect their villages and over time this has led many many times to fighting over land, the Faejeon crown, women and so on. These militia's were done away with when we got to the pre referendum situation because with no monarch the High Council inherited the responsibilities of the monarch and with the advantage of not being perceived as the 'crown's mouthpiece' they were able to keep a united Faejeon fighting force that now is set to become part of the Achkaerinese military. So for me to suddenly have my own private army as the Queen is to step back in time, I'd probably have eighteen village chiefs instantly raising their own militia's, not to mention fracturing the existing military and creating the need for a larger Achkaerinese presence. That's the historical reason coupled with that is the political reality that this sort of arrangement would have to be ratified by the Awhaele Parliament and it's virtually certain it wouldn't be.

As far as an East Moreland/CSU style goes we have thought about it, we consider it the plan b option, our first option was to see if we could get a path to admission, that doesn't appear possible so the CSU esque agreement becomes the next option. Our point there is that this isn't just about access to agencies or markets it's about representation, it's about being in the room when there's a discussion about something that concerns the region. I do know Peter supports the idea of pursuing a treaty or treaties with these organisations but I did want to be clear that we're still going to end up talking about presence at meetings and such."

Offline DaveIronside

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Re: A Letter to East Moreland
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2021, 10:21:46 PM »
"A militia force doesn't necessarily have to be under your direct command. There are many examples of defence forces of nations being created in special circumstances. The solution could be to create perhaps a Awhaele Regiment in the Achkaerin armed forces that are granted by the Emperor the status of a Home Defence unit. As such they would recruited from all the villages and this may reduce the issue of them being seen as "your" people. With the Emperor being their commander in chief you would be granted a rank such as General and this would give you the ability to issue orders in an emergency. You could even build in a fail-safe that no orders could be given without your parliament first releasing the force to its senior officer. You see my major concern is that should you apply to join these organisations as things stand I would find it difficult to have the East Moreland representative vote in your favour as I am yet to be convinced that you could fulfil the obligations and requirements of being members. Chances are others would feel the same. The military obligations of some of these is going to be a major stumbling block and I'm not even sure the concept I've just outlined would convince everyone."

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Re: A Letter to East Moreland
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2021, 11:20:35 PM »
Siora had to double take at David's comments, she thought they'd moved past the idea of Awhaele membership and had been talking around Achkaerinese membership, apparently not, quickly gathering her thoughts she ran over the logistics in her head, it was doable to perhaps get an agreement with Peter that authorized her under certain circumstances to deploy the Awhaele regiment, but it would need very careful wording to get it past the two or even three legislatures involved however it wasn't impossible.

"As per the transition agreement there is an Awhaele regiment in existence within the Achkaerinese military, now I can see how what you've just outlined can be achieved in terms of the end I do personally doubt that the means to that end will be what you suggest but I can see a way it can be done." Siora said

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Re: A Letter to East Moreland
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2021, 10:56:12 PM »
It would appear there would be very little they could agree on to ensure Awhaele would gain admission to the various local bodies. Even David wasn't convinced in backing their membership if they applied as they had suggested. He did however believe that as outliers to the region a friendship would be necessary. "I think we're going to struggle to find a path forward where I can be assured of being able to retain the idea of Illumic Regional Determination while at the same time having you be able to abide by the agreement." It was a result he hoped wouldn't be reached but it was now in his view inevitable unless Queen Siora could pull a metaphorical rabbit out of a hat. "I think that should you put a proposal before any of the regional bodies it may struggle, however I would not want Awhaele to be isolated I therefore propose the following"

Quote from: The East Moreland Awhaele Schedule of Friendship

On the ??/??/2021 the Kingdom of East Moreland and the Island province of Awhaele have agreed to abide by the following conditions.

1. East Moreland shall establish a consulate on Awhaele manned on parity with embassies typically run by East Moreland.

2. Awhaele shall establish a consulate in Northfort.

3. Goods which have 100% of their manufacturing process conducted in one nation may be exported to the other without tariffs.

4. The Awhaele Regiment shall undertake annual manoeuvres with the East Moreland military in order to promote military co-operation.

5. A total of 100 work visas for Awhaele based businesses shall be made available for businesses employing less than 50 individuals. Chamwick shall put aside a multi-use facility to be utilised by these businesses. A work visa may be denied on grounds of nation security.


"Its brief but many of the major items of a treaty will be covered by the existing East Moreland-Achkaerin treaty, this however will offer some oppurtunities unique for your people. Now obviously we need to consider the idea of how this would fit in with your arrangement with Achkaerin."

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Re: A Letter to East Moreland
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2021, 12:38:48 AM »
Now Siora was getting more and more confused she'd just satisfied, as far as she could, the issue over the defence stuff and now the King of East Moreland was prepared to pull the plug and essentially open the Pandora's box of a two tier Illumic not to mention the potential for further trouble down the line whenever a crisis happened in the region. The proposal before her was largely redundant right out of the gate and didn't resemble a compromise at all and it badly failed on the score of regional harmony and inclusion in her view, however there was something there that was helpful.
 
"If we can backtrack a moment we were discussing the defence obligations which I have said I believe Awhaele can satisfy in line with the proposal you made." Siora said "I also believe that point three of your proposal would go someway to overcoming the economic issue alluded to earlier, which would address two of your major concerns." she took a breath "As for your proposal by itself I could agree to it but then I would have to go and tell Peter that the arrangements with the AKO, MICA and the Illumic Council need to be dealt with by means of Achkaerin entering into East Moreland-CSU styled treaties with each of them, because I think we both know risking a two tier situation is not going to benefit anyone."

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Re: A Letter to East Moreland
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2021, 08:55:32 PM »
"I think perhaps you misunderstand where this going. I am pretty confident in my assessment that should you apply for membership of any of those organisations it would be a struggle for you to get the votes for membership. You see I will probably not be alone in thinking that we are not admitting Awhaele but we are in fact admitting Achkaerin. As such I am laying the foundations for a fall back as I would hate to see this visit end without some success and it may take a considerable amount of time for the paperwork to make a bid for these bodies to be completed and then of course any requested information or discussions. What I am putting forward could theoretically come into force in just a few days as far as I'm concerned. While a lot of our relationship will be governed by the East Moreland and Achkaerin agreement this essentially affords your nation a special status. Now if by some miracle you do get membership of these organisations points 1 and 2 are mute as their is provision in their charters to cover that, 3 would also fall in line with those charters, point four can continue anyway even if you become a member of those bodies and would be part of promoting co-operation between East Moreland and Achkaerin forces. The final point is something that can also remain in place if you join those organisations and in fact gets you something none of those nations have been offered. Now if you prefer to not go through with this proposal of mine and chance your arm at an all or nothing approach to joining the AKO, MICA and the like then of course that's your right."

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Re: A Letter to East Moreland
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2021, 09:56:26 PM »
Siora took a moment to think running through the options, Awhaele membership was likely not going to happen, Achkaerinese membership would likely raise more flags than that so that took getting what they needed above her pay grade as it were and handed it to Peter to handle, still she could get something which was good.

"I'm going to agree to your proposal, as for how it would apply within the context of Awhaele's relationship with Achkaerin to answer your earlier point I don't see that many issues, I think point one is entirely down to East Moreland and it's not unreasonable for nations to hav multiple embassies or consulates in other nations, point two will not be an issue as that formed part of what we initially proposed, point three would need the clarification that we're saying it's 100% manufacturing process on Awhaele, point four is a simple matter of getting Peter as commander in chief to nod it through which I'm confident he will. As far as I'm aware the visa part of point five is the same condition as in the East Moreland - Achkaerin treaty so I see no issue there nor do I see a problem with the rest of that point in terms of any effect on the Awhaele arrangement with Achkaerin that may cause an issue."