The Independent Order
Roleplay => Diplomacy and Events => Topic started by: DaveIronside on February 13, 2022, 08:23:31 PM
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OOC- Over the past six months or so we've a bit of a mix up with people starting meetings with regard eventually joining MICA or even the eligiblity of joining. As such I think it important that we get everything sorted so consider this the IC attempt at sorting out the OOC mess time has created.
Campford (https://www.rheinsteig.de/images/4r5has35avc-/kamp-bornhofen-mit-wallfahrtskloster.jpeg) was perhaps a strange place to hold an international conference but it was a place David enjoyed visiting. He had selected the venue as much to allow him to visit the castles as anything else but he felt it also important that Northfort was not always the place of importance in East Moreland. The choice of venue then would show Morelanders the King saw all cities, towns and villages, as important. The sturdy white walled Guild Hall would play host, just twenty meters away from the river Ost. It would be this river that would see his guests cruise the 25km or so upstream from Northfort passing through small farming towns and green woodland just returning to life. David waited down at the small floating quay that had been set up to allow the Royal East Moreland Naval Service to dock the seldom used River Catamarans (https://www.allamericanmarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/P116TennAqsbqt_x.jpg). The King was stood chatting with Prime Minister Henrietta Quinn and his cousin Duchess Orlaith Kade who was serving as Foreign Minister when the first guests arrived.
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It had been a good while since Grand Duke Hugo Lascelles had visited the Holy Land. Despite the visit taking place outside Northfort the Grand Duke had arrived the night before and spent time praying at the Temple of Helus and then enjoying a bite to eat in one of Northfort's upmarket eateries. It had been a good chance for him to catch up with some friends within the East Moreland government and colleagues from back home currently basing themselves in East Moreland. The trip in the morning therefore was one he could enjoy as he sailed down the River Ost without much to worry about. He knew the King had been meeting with Altona and Eskdale, probably laying foundations for the meeting, but there were a few matters that would be delicate he believed during the talks.
Having docked at Campford the Grand Duke was slightly taken aback by the lack of grandeur for the occasion but having greeted Therz and Anginer he bowed respectefully to King David. "Your Majesty a pleasure to meet you again. I trust the family are well?" he enquired before waiting for everyone else.
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Just like other times this year, Prince-Regent Vincenzo was too busy with spending his money on useless luxurious stuff and countless women, so the Vaguzian government was relieved when they heard he was sending his 25 year old cousin Prince Giuseppe who had just finished his study Political Science at the Royal Merriman university in East Moreland, so he was familiar with the country and also was a fluent Morelandish speaker, so Vincenzo saw this as the perfect opportunity to give him some experience in the field.
Before the meeting Giuseppe had enjoyed himself a good coffee as he enjoyed the beautiful sight at the lake, Vaguzians are proud people, but they are always impressed by the incredible landscape of East Moreland, a landscape which had proven to be an impossible barrier to break by Vaguzian forces in history.
As Giuseppe and his team walked up the hill towards the meeting he saw that he was one of the last to arrive at the meeting, as he already spotted the Bakkermayan and Heyran delegation in conversation with King David, he walked towards the group and introduced himself "Your majesty, your Highness, Your excellency, it's truly an honour to meet you, i am Prince Giuseppe, and i shall be representing the Vaguzian delegation, because unfortunately Prince-Regent Vincenzo was busy with erm... Other things"
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King Rutger was still unsure over MICA. He had spent several hours studying the charter and there were parts he liked but then again it was full of issues. The concept was something he knew the people back home would approve of though and with his reign still in its infancy there would be need to bring back something from this meeting. He had decieded to bring his elder brother Lukas with him and the pair had a trip to Portworth planned after the meeting had finished to check out the dockyards there as part of a wider idea the King had. The duo arrived first in Northfort and were slightly disappointed to have missed getting a boat with either Grand Duke Hugo or Prince Giuseppe.
"Good morning gentleman, Your Majesty, Your Graces." he did the rounds offering a hand to each person and then introduced his brother. "I look forward to getting to see whether we can work out something for our membership." he added.
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When three Kingdoms had such a complex arrangement as Eskdale there was bound to be some confusion. Royal Overseer Stanley Keynes had the unenviable job of trying to keep three monarchs, two Kings and a Queen, in check and Gods forbid if someone messed up the formalities. This had been made even worse when King Henry III of Papcastle had made a decision to fly to East Moreland on his own privately hired plane. This lead to concern from King Robert and Queen Diane that the King of Papcastle would make his way to Campford ahead of them. Henry had told Keynes that he would meet them at the riverside and now as he and Robert and Diane waited the two other monarchs were concerned he would have been onboard with the others ahead of them. This even saw Diane began discussing with a helicopter charter company on her phone while Keynes did his best to work out what was happening. Almost casually Henry strolled up 30 minutes late and despite the frustration of Robert and Diane didn't seem to have a care in the world. He had been enjoying an exceptional breakfast in a restaurant with an old friend before making his way to the pick up. The voyage down the river was spent largely in silence between the four of them with Keynes doing his best to play mediator as usual. When they reached Campford the Royal Overseer blocked the exit to the boat to speak with them in a manner a teacher might before letting excited school children off a bus for a trip.
"It is clear what happens. I've told you and do not embarass the United Kingdom." he warned in a stern voice. Robert and Henry kept stoney faced while Diane simply smiled and gave a fake salute to show she understood.
As expected Stanley greeted the gathering group first and then the monarchs in order of age, Henry, then Diane, then Robert. "Excellent to see you again King David and congratulations on the birth of Prince Llewellyn. We are hopeful our discussion in Eskdale can come to fruition today."
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This was Queen Siora Qivalur's (https://independentorder.net/index.php?topic=49.msg14217#msg14217) second trip abroad since taking the throne and also her second trip to East Moreland, which showed the high level of priority that was being put on making things work between the island of Awhaele, though more importantly her people, and the world around them. She had her doubts that even the most likely of outcomes to that question would be easily reached, still she was there to observe and listen and make friends, even if she was likely going to be the youngest person present, she wasn't coming into this unprepared she was the type of girl who in high school had done her homework as soon as she had the chance and had usually done a lot more than was necessary while she was at it. Accompanying Siora was the First Minister of Awhaele Vivian Tasis (https://independentorder.net/index.php?topic=49.msg21090#msg21090), who was much more experienced politically speaking, this difference was borne out more in their choice of clothes, Siora in black jeans, a dark blue t-shirt and a white wooly jumper while Vivian wore a business suit. Sailing down the river was a pleasant experience and reminded the young Queen of her coronation, sailing down the from Mount Rao to Cyalona, wasn't something she'd ever forget though that journey had taken three days compared to this. Just after the pair stepped out of the boat and onto the dockside Vivian briefly held the Queen back pointing out who the various people were, in truth Siora had true to form done her homework so she was across this but allowed Vivian to go a little mother hen like for a moment.
Waiting until King David wasn't occupied the pair stepped forwards. "Your Majesty I thank you again for the opportunity to be here." Siora said giving a respectful nod "May I introduce the First Minister of Awhaele Vivian Tasis."
"Your Majesty." Vivian said.
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With some protest at home the two monarchs determined that only one monarch must go to the meeting. With King Jonas having control of the military if escalation occured then he would need to step in quickly. Queen Karin then would attend and speak for the Diarchy. Her journey was shorter and as such she flew by helicopter to the town where the meeting would take part and had arranged for a vehicle to pick her up from landing area and take her to the meeting point. It seemed she was the final one to arrive and she knew many across the world had a distain for Hassfurt but she did her best to greet people cheerfully. "Good Morning King David" she ensured the host was greeted first and then the others before turning back to the Morelander King. "Do we have everybody?"
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It had not been the orderly start to the meeting that David had hoped for. First there had been the literal chaos that had surrounded the Eskdale arrival, then the fact the Queen of Hassfurt arrived from completly the different direction to everyone else and then the apparent lack of seriousness the attire the Queen of Awhaele had shown the occasion. David believed her islands membership would be one of the hot topics and perhaps the impression was that she wasn't taking this seriously. He hoped that when her chance to speak came she made a better first impression. Now though wasn't time for the worries to show and David began to pack them off in cars on the short distance from the riverside to the Old Oasthouse (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/935614046974132265/945453716432121917/unknown.png) a large crowd had gathered on the narrow old town streets to greet the King who was a rare visitor to places such as this. David had already spoken to several of the crowd as he'd walked down that morning but now was content to wave from one of the cars. The old Oasthouse was a large converted hop storage building from the 17th Century, now converted into a hotel and restaurant, it was in the old kiln that stood in the very top of the roof that the meeting would take place. The large circular room had once been used as a place to the final drying process before the hops were taken off to be turned into ale. The room had a large circular table in the centre at which his cousin Duchess Orlaith Kade was already sat and she waved a friendly greeting to those others as they entered. David waited for everyone to take a seat.
"I'd like to begin by thanking everyone for their time in attending this meeting. Currently MICA is made up ourselves, Vaguzia, Heyra, Seaforth, Zimalia (OOC - Assume Seaforth and Zimalia have shown up. I forgot about them....oops) and Bakkermaya. We're joined however today by Altona, Hassfurt and Eskdale whose membership, if they wish it it should be pretty clear cut, we then welcome with us today Queen Siora who representing Awhaele is perhaps in a less obvious position. I think the most logical place to start would be to examine whether these four perspective new members want to join. I'm assuming that's going to be a yes as you've actually turned up, but obviously their may be concerns, questions or conditions nations wish to present. In terms of the state of this body we represent $16.6 Trillion in GDP, a sizeable economic grouping, to put it in context the CNN has $21.3 Trillion while the CSU has somewhere in the regions of $17.5 Trillion, what we could do here today could change this economic order. Should all four nations sign up then our combined economies would hit a potential $23.9 Trillion, that's quiet an incentive. But for MICA hasn't been designed just as an economic network, its about us determining what future we, the people who call these seas home, want to create. I have spoken at length in my past about Illumic Self-Determination, those countries who have always called these waters home making decisions about its future. We now have an organisation where around half the Mhorish and Illumic are outside the organisation I hoped would ensure that this ideal of Illumic Self-Determination spread to the Mhorish and ensured that we could create an unparalleled region in terms of co-operation. To date its worked, we've all seen economic growth, we've supported each other during their times of need and we've achieved some interesting things. Partnerships such as SFR clearning landmines in Heyra have been made possible through things like this organisation. So what I propose is that I throw the table open to our non-member guests with three questions. The first and most important is "Do you want in?", then what do we need to do to get you in and finally what's preventing you from joining if anything. I've said my piece for now, I throw the meeting open to my neighbours." David sat back in his seat to allow anyone else to take up the discussion.
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Rutger didn't really understand the need to make a journey of such a short distance by car but this wasn't his event to host and so he did as requested. Rutger already had an interest in joining but it was interesting to see just how economically vibrant the area was. "If I may be first to respond" Rutger said "Obviously I can only speak on my own nations behalf but I'd be very interested in joining however I do have a concern. Since the organisation was set up each of you involved have evolved your relationships beyond the region. Heyra had a series of interests in places like Elysium, East Moreland have partnerships with TUNA, and of course Bakkermaya are a member of that organisation as well as this. While I think that is commendable I don't want to have Altona end up with effectively a one way street in terms of trade. What I mean by that is I don't want an arrangement where a car can be made in Paracambi and end up being sold tariff free in Altona having used the East Moreland-TUNA arrangement as a kind of back door. Meanwhile goods going from Altona to Paracambi face such taxes. I'll hold my hands up and say I'm no expert on each of the deals that govern things such as the Elysium arrangement or the East Moreland CSU deal for example. Therefore if Altona are to join I'd like to see a few changes to the charter."
With that Rutger presented each of the guests with a document.
We propose the current wording
2. All members agree to permit trade from MICA members tariff free so long as the following criteria are meet.
a) Companies abide by all local rules governing health and safety.
b) Companies abide by all local laws governing prohibited materials and substances.
c) Companies pay local taxes at the same rate as local companies.
Be changed to
2. All members agree to permit trade of products, goods and services that originate from MICA members tariff free so long as the following criteria are meet. For the purpose of this charter products and goods are classed as originating from a MICA member if at least 75% of the processes required to complete it are undertaken in a MICA nation. Services are classed as originating from a MICA member if they are carried out from a registered office within the borders of a MICA nation by a company registered for tax in a MICA nation.
a) Companies abide by all local rules governing health and safety.
b) Companies abide by all local laws governing prohibited materials and substances.
c) Companies pay local taxes at the same rate as local companies.
Having let those around the table read the proposal Rutger waited, "I await your decision."
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A small huddle of Eskdale representatives gathered and whispered following Rutger's announcement and carefully studied the document. Similar concerns had spread through the three Kingdoms and Royal Overseer Stanely Keynes agreed. "We likewise have our concerns that many of you have made impressive and extensive connections around the world. One day we'll do the same but we wish to do so on our own terms and in its present form we're not confident the charter allows us to fully control our borders. As such we'll look for the amendment before committing ourselves to join."
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David saw the point that both these nations were making, he knew there was likely to need to be an evolution of the organisation once they expanded and he hoped it would be a reasonably large expansion at that. The idea had been to promote trade between the region and MICA had achieved that but it was also true to say that there had been significant change to each members foreign policies and trade arrangements so perhaps now was the time. "I'd be happy to support King Rutger's amendment, however it is up to the membership as it stands to determine what the charter should say. I for one though would vote to change the charter in the way suggested."
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"If no one has any suggestions for an amendment to what our new friends have suggested then perhaps we should vote? If we are Bakkermaya votes for the amendment, anyone else?"
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Rutger had been hopeful until Therz hostile response. "What I've proposed does not destablisie or limit trade. If Elysium still want to send goods to Altona, assuming we join this body, then they'll be welcome to as long as they aren't trying to sell anything illegal in Altona. I would hope regardless of our status within this body that our timber could still find its way into Heyra. What we don't want is someone taking advantage of tariff free trade to effectively sneak goods into our nation without our nation recieving their rightful dues. What I don't want is Tamoran fruit for example ending up in Altona via Elysium without us having the right to effectively charge them for the right to trade with us. At present this trade route is wide open under the charter. So I believe Madam Therz[1] is faced with two choices. Choice one is we amend the charter, ensure this loophole is closed and MICA expands. Choice Two is that the loophole remains open and myself and I suspect the delegation for Eskdale take our bat and ball and go home. That is unless she can suggest a third option."
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Rutger was not entirely satisfied.
"Under the current arrangements all anything must do to find its way into East Moreland from Heyra is comply with their health and safety laws, comply with laws regarding prohibited materials and then the seller pay any local taxes. So in theory the mango grown in Tamora is taken into Elysium, flown to Heyra and will be classed as an internal trade. Then so long as that Mango is properly labelled for health and safety, as long as East Moreland don't restrict Mango sales in their supermarkets and that the seller pays the sales tax that everything in East Moreland is expected to pay they can then sell that Mango. I've just demonstrated that a Tamoran mango can end up in East Moreland pretty easily. Now had we got my rules in place the exporter would need to show proof that the Mango had been grown in Heyra. Now you suggest using simply the word "originate" but then if you're dealing with Mango juice where does that class as originating, is it the place the Mango's are grown or the place the containers is sealed in. By stating a definition then we ensure fairness and no loopholes. Now should the Chairwoman have a suggestion for how we determine this then I am open to suggestions."
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Giuseppe was a bit surprised by the suggestion of King Rutger and saw that Heyra was on his side with this one "i am a bit surprised by this remark, your majesty, i understand that this might be a small disadvantage of the MICA membership, but in all alliances, we have to compromise, because we are simply all different nations who trade different goods, and unfortunately this means that these things can occur, but in my opinion that's just the nature of trade, and i honestly cannot give our border guards who are very busy with fighting terrorism and Borlanders at the quite violent border of my nation with East Moreland, bureaucratic nonsense such as this, maybe your country has the privilege of being able to give your agencies more bureaucracy but unfortunately our agencies are too busy with other things and cannot afford any more bureaucracy, which will also force my government to tax my citizens who have just recovered from a severe recession even more. Wouldnt you agree, your majesty, the the positive things your nation would gain through a MICA membership, outweigh the negative things?"
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David was concerned. It seemed MICA had reached a bit of a cross-roads and it would take some navigating to ensure they came out the otherside in one piece. "We stand with a slight problem. On one hand we have MICA that doesn't fully represent the region with Altona, Eskdale and Hassfurt not part of the equation. One of the strengths of MICA has always been that we have stood united in many ways, be that anti-piracy, supporting each other after crisis such as the Rokkenjiman damage of recent times or helping with issues such as search and rescue. The problem is I too think the article needs some tightening up. The current wording means once something has arrived in a MICA nation it can move freely around us all. What you may all fail to realise is that I have in effect entered you all into a free trade agreement with Cassiopeia which in effect goes one way. You see currently Cassiopeia can bring items into East Moreland tarrif free and then those items can enter any MICA nation tariff free, however when Vaguzia sells items to Cassiopeia, even if they ship from Portworth you will be paying taxes. Now I imagine a nation like Heyra may not be concerned by this so much as their stance on free trade is very clear, however if I was them I would be upset by the one sided nature of the free trade agreement Cassiopeia has with them via the back door. While I have a firm belief that free trade is desirable I do not think it neccessarily desirable for it to be offered to all nations offering the oppurtunity is a diplomatic tool I want to be able to control for East Moreland. This was a loophole we should have seen when we formed this body but now we have a chance to close it. We either do close it or we run a real risk of MICA splitting the region and then we lose everything we've worked hard for."
The King paused for a moment or two. "What I propose is a slightly different strategy than the one King Rutger has proposed. Currently we are dealing with a charter that says.
"2. All members agree to permit trade from MICA members tariff free so long as the following criteria are meet.
a) Companies abide by all local rules governing health and safety.
b) Companies abide by all local laws governing prohibited materials and substances.
c) Companies pay local taxes at the same rate as local companies"
"I believe that perhaps we should consider changing this to."
2. All members agree to the following trade agreements.
a) All materials gathered in the MICA region may be traded tarriff free so long as they remain unprocessed.
b) All materials gathered outside the MICA region shall be required to pay a tariff once they reach a nation that the gathering nation would normally pay tariffs in.
c) All materials that have been processed in a MICA nation shall be traded tariff free.
d) All materials that have been processed outside a MICA nation but enter the region shall be eligible for tariffs at the first border they reach where the processing nation would normally pay tariffs.
e) All services may be traded tariff free.
f) Companies must abide by all local rules governing health and safety.
g) Companies must abide by all local laws governing prohibited materials and substances.
h) Companies must pay local taxes at the same rate as local companies"
"Now under this new wording should Heyra have a Heyran company in Elysium drill for oil, they stick it in a barrell and bring it to Portworth its more than welcome to be sold in East Moreland tarriff free. However should Heyra buy that oil from a company anywhere else in the world and try and sell it we can charge a tariff, even if its gone through Heyra. Now if that oil arrives in Heyra first and gets turned into diesel and petrol again we'll welcome it in. This wording also gives nations like Vaguzia the ability to say they'll accept anything that comes through from East Moreland or Heyra and thus avoid the buerocracy they are worried about, meanwhile nations like Altona, Eksdale and East Moreland that would like to perhaps have a say over which nations they give tariff free trade to still can. I think this is a fair compromise that gives those of us who wish more protection over free trade reassurances while those who have less concerns can manage things their way."
David hoped this would present a solution both sides could agree with and at the same time close the loop hole.
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The four members of the Eskdale contingent spun their chairs to form a brief circle but it was clear that Keynes was doing the majority of the talking. "The Three Kingdoms of Eskdale had concerns along similar lines as Altona. We however would have our fears put aside if this proposal from King David was accepted."
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Bakkermaya are happy to accept the East Moreland proposal.
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Although it was completely what Giuseppe had hoped for he remembered a quote by the great philosopher Mick Jagger "You can't always get what you want" so he pretended to critically look at the new proposal and then said "yes okay, i think this will work"
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Rutger wasn't entirely satisfied but there was enough in it to secure in essence what he wanted. "With this seemingly accepted then I would like to confirm that my Kingdom will be joining the organisation, unless of course there is a motion to block membership." He scanned the table carefully hoping this would not be the case, he knew he was going to ruffle Heyran feathers with his proposal but he hadn't counted on the Vaguzians being so against it. He was however confident that he would be able to secure the support of East Moreland and Bakkermaya at least.
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It seemed now that it was time to turn matters to Eskdale situation. "I am happy to say that I can approve the Eskdale application potentially." He looked back at where the three monarchs were sat. "Now potentially we have a stumbling block. Each of the three Kingdoms is free to set some local taxes such as sales tax for example. What we are asking for is that each of the three monarchs is permitted to sign the agreement and have a say in how the organisation works. I also appreciate that this could be a problem as it could be seen as giving Eskdale three votes so what we propose is that while we would have three voices in debate we would have one vote. If the organisation agrees we would put in place local legislation that says I appoint a MICA voting delegate who shall always vote the way the majority of the monarchs instruct. We think this is a fair compromise."
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With no one having opposed Altona's entry to MICA Rutger was pleased that he was seemingly its newest member, at least perhaps for a few minutes. Rutger was rather familiar with the system of government in Eskdale even if he did believe that it made very little sense. He did though want Eskdale in the organisation and the reasoning Keynes gave seemed to make sense as to why they needed this arrangement. If it was to be like other organisations debates could see people with a veritable herd of advisers and specialists accompanying them and often speeches were written by experts before hand. It didn't really matter then who spoke on behalf of Eskdale as long as they couldn't pool their votes and muscle the organisation to do what they wanted. "So long as Eskdale is only given one vote then I would support their entry into MICA. Internal politics is there concern and while it may take a few minutes longer in debate to get a wider range of views from those who live in the region is important."
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Bakkermaya supports the inclusion of Eskdale with three voices so long as they only have one vote.
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David had seen the Eskdale system in work and had concluded agreements with each of the three Kingdoms during his visit there. He was satisfied that Keynes would be able to navigate the arrangement and so had no problem supporting it. "We in East Moreland are happy to accept the Eskdale proposal."
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The Kingdom of Vaguzia also supports the proposal
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With the Heyran and Vaguzian support it was sorted, Eskdale was now too a member of the organisation, all be it one with three voices but one vote. The next part of the discussion was going to be the tricky one. "The next matter is one I think will provoke more discussion. We have with us Queen Siora from Awhaele. Her nation has a unique position, on the one hand it is close to Alba Karinya and the North end of the Illumic, some would argue not truly in the Illumic. They are a people who have lived in peace with us their southern neighbours and to the best of our knowledge never had an angry word with any of us. But then there is the potential problem that Awhaelele is a land that owes a deep connection to Achkaerin. Perhaps it is best if Queen Siora explains her people's situation and how they think it best fits within the organisation."
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OOC- With Hassfurt having changed I propose we move onto Aweahle while we wait to see if Heimney goes for membership
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OOC
Please consider Heimney has applied
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OOC - To help keep this moving I'm going to say if by the end of Wednesday no one has opposed Heimney joining or wants to ask them anything they are in and we can get down to Awahle.
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David was pleased with how things were going. So far three new members to MICA, Eskdale, Altona and now Heimney. It was time now for things to turn to Awhaele. "With the obvious inductions of members we now have the more complex matter of Awhaele. I will admit that prior to this meeting I've meet with them to discuss this meeting and I made clear that I had a major concern and was given some verbal assurances that these could be overcome. I though think it important that the rest of you feel free to voice your concerns and questions to the Queen and make your own determination as to what we should do. Obviously Her Majesty may wish to speak more openly first" David said having threw the floor open to his guest.
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"If I may intervene" King Rutger spoke up. " I have several concerns with Awhaele being a member of this organisation. The charter states one of the aims of MICA is "To live in peace with their fellow Mhorish and Illumic nations, solving disputes peacefully and swiftly." Until July 2020 the island was not the sovereign territory of Achkaerin and with a population that's majority wise made of Achkaerinese and Vaguzian nationals it stands to reason that this is in effect a colonisation of the Illumic rather than a native nation applying to join. Add to this the statements made in August 2020 when Achkaerin proposed to take unilateral action in the Illumic on a matter that was at the time being dealt with by MICA nations, namely East Moreland and several others. This action aimed to tarnish all Zimalian vessels as involved in human trafficing despite their also being ships flagged in many other nations being involved. This smacks of not being a willing partner in the region and as has happened with other foreign nations in the region an attempt to impose their desires on our homeland. I therefore would be forced to vote against Awhaele's admission as we are not admitting the Faejeon people who are native to the island we are in fact admitting the Holy Empire of Achkaerin and that brings with it baggage, first of their CSTO alleigances, an alliance that will send a carrier fleet anywhere at the drop of a hat and then months later seeks to draw back on their rash actions. Add to that we are potentially giving the CSU a backdoor into what could, as King David explained, be one of the strongest economic blocks on Mundus despite the fact their national economies are largely dominated by megacorporations therefore potentially overwhelming local economies if we grant carpet access. I would therefore ask Queen Siora whether first of all she has authority to make a decision about the involvement in MICA or will that be Emperor Peter. I would also like to know how she would suggest us ensuring the CSTO and CSU problem I have described don't impact our region."
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Siora paused as she collected her thoughts, however it was Vivian who sensing the young Queen's tension and not being overly impressed spoke first.
"The overwhelming majority of the Awhaele population are Illumic natives by which I mean born on Awhaele, educated on Awhaele, living on Awhaele. If anything Awhaele has been the victim, the victim of a cultural genocide and a whole lot more, many Faejeon will tell you that our chance to be a united nation was stolen centuries ago, a peace guaranteed by those who sheltered us kept us alive. I will say that when the referendum happened independence was on the ballot and lost not because the Faejeon were outnumbered, truth be told we're the largest group by proportion at 48% of the population, but because a majority of an Illumic native population exercised their right to self determination and voted for what they wanted, and I hope none of you will seek to use that exercising of democratic choice to slam the door.
In terms of King Rutger's points I would like to just clarify something, my understanding based on conversations I've had and meetings I've been involved in is that the government of Achkaerin sent notice to MICA of action it was proposing in response to events that had seen citizens living on its sovereign territory kidnapped, specifically the intent to stop and search vessels travelling to Zimalia that it had reasonable grounds to believe were being used in human trafficking - that's regardless of the flag they fly. The providing of such notice gave two responses, first from MICA essentially saying "We'd rather you didn't do that, we're handling with it, let us get things in place and we'll keep you in the loop." and secondly from Zimalia reminding Achkaerin of the FSC provision that requires payment of compensation for inconvenience caused by what was proposed. The end result of that communication exchange was that Achkaerin didn't implement the proposal, to my mind that's peaceful cooperation and swiftly dealing with the issue[1] and I would remind everyone that there's no agreement anywhere that requires MICA to be given that advance notice. This highlights to some extent the issue we came here to address."
While Vivian had been speaking, Siora had been thinking through how to answer Rutger's two questions "The question about authority was something I discussed with King David, the answer is that Awhaele is a devolved province in much the same way as the constituent kingdoms of Eskdale are, I am in that analogy the equivalent of one of the monarchs of one of the three kingdoms and Emperor Peter is the Overseer, by which I mean there is a limit on my authority in the day to day sense, my signature on devolved legislation is the equivalent of the Emperors, but obviously there are areas that are not devolved typically speaking and here we're talking about the defence area. I doubt it comes as any surprise that I can't declare war for example or give certain orders as I'm not commander in chief of the Achkaerinese military, this particular issue was in my opinion at least the more problematic one, because while under the devolution terms we can satisfy large amounts of the authority point, we couldn't satisfy the military side. So what we came up with is what we're calling the 'MICA Scope Protocol' this would see my authority expanded to be that of commander in chief of Achkaerinese forces stationed on Awhaele if it were for MICA purposes such as the training exercises commitment. So if we got to the point at the end of this where Awhaele's status in respect of MICA is resolved with Awhaele in decision making then the buck stops with me as the saying goes.
In regards to your Cross-Straits problem, the backdoor you're talking about has existed for many years before today through East Moreland's trade agreement with the CSU and I'm fairly certain that the amendment you passed at the start of this meeting closed it, my only addition to that would be to define the 'MICA region' in geographic terms as the Illumic Channel and Mhorish Sea. In terms of the CSTO, don't confuse the organisation with one particular member of it, there are four members and they all do things differently. There are two scenarios which see certain CSTO involvement in this region, an attack on Awhaele or an attack on Rishiri either of those triggers the CSTO provision, just as an attack in East Moreland brings the CNN into the region. Passage through the region and such is governed under COIN and the FSC I believe, ultimately though if you want a guarantee you should be talking to the CSTO themselves."
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"I'm afraid I am still left with questions and concerns." Rutger began. "You state you don't want the exercising of democratic choice to slam the door but making choices comes with consequences. We are today not being asked to admit Awhaele and the Faejeon people into MICA. We are being asked to admit Achkaerin for you are their sovereign territory and Peter the Emperor over you. Surely when debating the referendum it must have been clear that with East Moreland's stance on ensuring the Illumic is best governed by the people there was always going to cast doubt on what would otherwise have been a straight forward admission. You're now asking us to have an Emperor from the opposite side of Mundus have equal say over what happens in this region as those of us who are natives. That is a choice your people made and as such a choice they must now live with. As for the FSC a nation that places such great weight on such a document shouldn't need reminders of how it works after making a policy. Now as you try and compare yourself to Eskdale it is worth reminding you that while you may have a similar arrangement to the the three monarchs there each of those monarchs represents a land within the Illumic and overseen by a leader from the Illumic. You're circumstances are very different. With the greatest respect to the Kings and Queen of these three Kingdoms that form Eskdale they are not the ones with a voting right. In terms of the vote of Awhaele it will be ultimately exercised in the Great Northern Ocean and not in the Illumic. This "Scope Protocol" may sound nice on paper but in reality its worthless. You have no military of your own, you rely on what Emperor Peter sends you should he wish to not fulfil something that we determine as a group then all he needs to do is station inadequate or inappropriate numbers or equipment on Awhaele. You are asking us to place a great deal of good faith on Emperor Peter and Achkaerin rather than on yourself and Awhaele. Welcoming the 20million people of Awhaele would have been a pleasure, however welcoming them, plus the 102 million people of Achkaerin is not as so straight forward. I'm yet to hear of any reassurance that MICA does not become influenced by a nation in the Great North Ocean or as to why 102 million people from that region deserve to be granted free trade access to my Kingdom despite supporting an organisation that I believe causes more harm to global stability than it brings reassurance. Every nation brings with it baggage into a relationship. I am confident with East Moreland that their CNN baggage is manageable, I am not too sure CSTO baggage is but I am all ears."
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Siora leaned over to whisper something in Vivian's ear, the First Minister nodded and excused herself for a moment, the reason was simple Siora had an idea but it needed backing.
"What I'm hearing is that you have questions and concerns around the Emperor, I trust him you don't maybe that's because I know him better than you do but it's clearly not something we can address here, you have issues about Achkaerin's relationship with the CSTO, but in my view you're confusing unilateral actions taken by one member of that alliance as being taken by the whole alliance." she took a breath "Given your worries about influence and such perhaps MICA should rework it's charter to address that issue." she put a piece of paper on the table
Any nation with access to the Mhorish or Illumic coastline may become a member of this organisation by agreeing to abide by its articles and aims. Any nations admission may be stopped should a motion to not admit be presented and supported by 75% of voting members.
"That's currently the sole provision in the MICA charter that deals with membership, no mention of native, just who has access. The principle of all nations meeting the criteria being able to join isn't bad as it avoids a two tier situation developing but it does as you allude to risk diluting the authority of the native nations to make the decisions. So if I may make a suggestion:" she put another piece of paper on the table
1. Any nation with access to the Mhorish or Illumic coastline may become a member of this organisation by agreeing to abide by its articles and aims. Any nations admission may be stopped should a motion to not admit be presented and supported by 75% of voting members.
a) Nations native to the MICA region (in terms of sovereignty) shall be referred to as Permanent Members.
b) Nations not native to the MICA region but who have the coastline access shall be referred to as Associate members
c) Both Permanent and Associate members shall be allowed membership of MICA bodies and to be present at meetings
d) Both Permanent and Associate Members may propose matters for debate and participate in debate.
e) Only Permanent Members may vote.
"I hope King David won't mind the heavy borrowing from the Illumic Council wording, but I trust you see what I'm suggesting here, restructuring the membership to keep the decision making power with the natives while allowing those that have a stake in the region but aren't native, such as Achkaerin, to be present and contribute but the votes stay in the Illumic and Mhorish. You then expressed concerns about the economic issue, that's a little more tricky but I'll take a shot at it, maybe something like this." she picked up a copy of the previously agreed amendment and quickly noted some stuff
2. All members agree to the following trade agreements.
a) All materials gathered in the MICA region (defined as geographically the Mhorish Sea and Illumic Channel) may be traded tarriff free so long as they remain unprocessed.
b) All materials gathered outside the MICA region shall be required to pay a tariff once they reach a nation that the gathering nation would normally pay tariffs in.
c) All materials that have been processed in a MICA nation (defined as a nation with 'home' territory within the MICA region or where there be no 'home territory' exclusively within sovereign territory in the MICA region) shall be traded tariff free.
d) All materials that have been processed outside a MICA nation but enter the region shall be eligible for tariffs at the first border they reach where the processing nation would normally pay tariffs.
e) All services may be traded tariff free.
f) Companies must abide by all local rules governing health and safety.
g) Companies must abide by all local laws governing prohibited materials and substances.
h) Companies must pay local taxes at the same rate as local companies
"What the suggestion in red does is make the MICA region clearly defined in geographic terms so that would to address King Rutger's economic access concern mean that minerals mined in Awhaele would be tariff free, whereas a mineral mined up north would not be. The suggestion in yellow does a similar thing for processed materials but does it in a way that doesn't impact anyone except the non natives, using the proposed permanent/associate membership to make the distinction, it builds a wall that keeps the benefits within the MICA region." she glanced over her shoulder at Vivian as if searching for confirmation and got the nod "And yes the Emperor will agree to that."
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"No I'm not." Siora said "Heyra is a MICA Nation, it's home territory, unless you're about to tell us that Juhi or Elysium is your home territory, sits in the MICA region it is therefore under my proposal unaffected."
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"Again you're missing the point, Heyra acquired the land for Elysium in 2018 I believe, that's not home territory by my definition, Juhi voted more recently in a referendum to join Heyra so I wouldn't call that home territory by my definition either. Let me put it another way if I were to have a scientific study conducted I would likely find the earliest traces of Heyra as a sovereign state in the Mhorish and Illumic region, am I wrong? That's what I mean by home territory. I'm not interested in how you view overseas territories which you've acquired, but the facts are historically that you didn't always have them so I don't take them as home territory within the context I am describing."
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Rutger had been listening to the Awhaele and Heyran discussion.
"The MICA Charter makes it clear that access to the Mhorish or Illumic is not the only qualification needed to join this organisation. The charter clearly states that approval of those already in the organisation is needed. We don't therefore need to define anything regarding geography or control, once someone applies for membership we, the membership, determine whether they qualify. There are sat around this table several Heads of State and leading politicians that have concluded treaties and arrangements across Mundus. This does not come down to the charter, the charter could say exactly what you suggested but I would still oppose your membership. The reason is simple I do not believe that decisions about the happening in the Mhroish and Illumic should be made in the Great North Ocean. You have just stated that if we studied the earliest traces of Heyra we'd find it in the Mhorish and Illumic which is correct however if we do the same for Achkaerin it would be in the Great North Ocean, so therefore while your people are native your leaders are not. That is a decision that your people have made and now they must live with that decision. I am yet to be convinced that I should change my vote to support your admission. No nation that has territory overseas has not adversely impacted the people there. Look at your own words, you spoke of your homeland undergoing a cultural genocide. Since 1880 the Treaty after the Battle of Partisarum gave neither Achkaerin or Vaguzia a claim to sovereignty over Awhaele unless the people choose to. That was a chance for the island to shake off the cultural genocide. We've seen East Moreland take steps to rediscover parts of its culture, under our hosts great-grandfather we saw East Moreland take a shift towards English as a main language, King David and his father sought to restore Morelandish as their native language and have succeeded hugely. There was a chance for Awhaele to be able to take control of their direction of travel and they looked North not South. If you wish to sway my vote, and I suspect several others around this table, then the image of being just a way of getting Achkaerin a say in our region needs to be addressed. The organisation doesn't need to change to accommodate you as it is already strong enough. With ourselves, Eskdale and Heimney joining we have surpassed the size of the CSU economy, we're one of the most stable regions on Mundus and have a huge record of co-operation, just look at the recent incident in Heyra and how Bakkermaya and East Moreland both stepped up to help them. This is quiet an organisation so convince us that we should overlook our concerns?"
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Grand Duke Hugo Lascelles began "As Queen Siora will likely know some time ago this organisation fashioned a system of what became known as Rapid Reaction Responsibility Areas of 3RA's. The purpose was that as a body we would be able to cover the whole of the Illumic and Mhroish, the exception being territorial waters, in case of emergencies such as piracy or the need for search and rescue. If you look at the map (https://i.imgur.com/reMiR6H.jpg) of them you will note that a line running more or less from the Zimalia and Argemento border across to Seaforth marks the northern limit of the Illumic. Even if being more generous the idea of a nautical channel is a waterway between two landmasses that lie close to each other, now that is pushing the definition for the Illumic, but clearly you are not of the same landmass as Alba Karinya or Aranye which sit the opposite sides of the Illumic. This would mean according to this map (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/963453770979766284/981150063776653322/unknown.png) connecting the most northernly parts of those landmasses you could therefore argue that your nation isn't even native to the Illumic so I think it even more important to hear on why you, and not the Emperor of Achkaerin, should be involved in this organisation. If you can convince us of that then we can work out how to make it happen.
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Almost in unison Siora and Vivian reached for bracelets that were on their wrists, these were holy symbols to their faith akin to what a crucifix was for Christians, the pair muttered something in their native tongue, in truth this was a prayer not for themselves but for what they'd just heard, words that suggested the table was likely not entirely familiar with the post 1880 situation, and then the Grand Duke redefining long established geographic boundaries was just plain shocking.
"While it's true the 1880 treaty prevented either Vaguzia or Achkaerin from claiming sovereignty over Awhaele it did other things as well and I'll get to that in a moment." Siora said slowly "But first you need to understand where the Faejeon were in 1880, those that had fought in the war and survived returned to their villages, those that had been evacuated during the height of the conflict were in a refugee camp in Achkaerin. Cyalona a city that is to the Faejeon what the Isle of the Goddess is to the Lodjans had been sacked and largely ruined by the Vaguzian's, relics stolen, temples burned, the guild buildings destroyed, the palace itself a hollow shell of what it had been and only a single guild leader, the High Priestess, surviving." she took a breath "The treaty in 1880 didn't just end a war in put in place a system of government that I'm sure we're all familiar with - a Parliament with a first past the post constituency based vote, that system still governs the island day to day happenings today. Between 1880 and 2010 that Parliament was governed by a Vaguzian party that basically implemented and enforced a set of policies that discriminated against the Faejeon, we weren't allowed to worship openly, we couldn't conduct guild examinations, we couldn't even learn our own heritage because of the curriculum put in the schools, we were having Izra shoved down our throats, the first minister here was barred from going to university because she is a Faejeon woman. In fairness it wasn't that much better up north but that was to be expected, when in a foreign land you expect to learn their curriculum, we were however able to practice our faith albeit in what was best described as a stone hut. In 2010 the government on Awhaele shifted and things started to open up, refugees were able to return home as they perceived it to be safer, although many didn't until three years ago with my coronation, we started the long process of rebuilding and it may not finish for a while but we're on the journey, we've seen some temples restored, we've seen the Palace rebuilt, Cyalona reopened to its people but there's still a lot to do, part of the reason I came here was to get assistance in some of those efforts.
What I'm trying to explain here is a little of our more recent history, we've not had one hundred and forty two years to shake this we've had technically seven but in truth more like three. These kind of wounds take a lot of time to heal but here I am sitting at the same table as Vaguzia, the nation that greatly wronged us, and I don't believe it's the same Vaguzia. You're all understandably concerned about who makes decisions, in truth Achkaerin doesn't need the admission into MICA it has bilateral treaties with some of the MICA membership that cover pretty much everything in the charter and has a very strong track record of cooperation in this region, if it was Valtheim that wanted this I wouldn't be sat here, you'd have an Achkaerinese minister in front of you, instead I'm here with the first minister because I believe it's in the interests of my island to forge closer relations with its Illumic and Mhorish brethren this is our home region as much as it yours, the reason it's Achkaerin your having to consider for admission and not Awhaele is because when myself and King David previously met we couldn't find a way of firewalling Achkaerin out and keeping Awhaele in, the most glaring reason for that being the 3RA's, it's a defence related matter and that's the one area covered under the MICA charter that doesn't fall within the Awhaele governments powers under the devolution agreement. This has been overcome before in this region and I believe it can do so again in a way that satisfies King Rutger's concerns in that area, but for that you would need an outside agreement between MICA and Achkaerin to underpin it. We're all Mhorish or Illumic natives here, we all want the same thing, greater cooperation and a stable region to everyone's satisfaction and that's achievable, we've got some of the most experienced negotiators on Mundus here after all. Awhaele can alone satisfy over 90% of this charter all I'm asking for is the chance to make that 100%.
You don't have to admit us as full members either, you can always do something like probationary membership, test it out over time before full admission, considering that several of the concerns are to do with things that have not happened and may not happen giving us a chance to show you who we are, that we can work cooperatively together and to alleviate the concerns you have without you risking an outside influence."
OOC note: The 2015 date has been changed to 2010 to avoid issues with EM/Vaguzia relations.
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"Governor you appear to not understand how the Achkaerinese system works." Vivian said "The Empire is made up of nine Constituent Nations, each of those nine has their own legislature, and each of those nine legislatures must ratify a law of the Senate that impacts them in order for that law to apply, legislation falls if the Constituent legislature says no. So once the Senate passes what is being called AVAL, Awhaele Votes for Awhaele Laws, that arrangement will apply to us as well. So no Valtheim cannot impose any law it chooses without the natives having a say if it impacts them and if we say no our voice is louder." she took a moment to pause "Now in terms of your questions, the first one is quite simple at the moment Awhaele benefits from ties with three nations around this table, if admitted we gain ties with the remaining six. As far as your second question I've just explained it, what you call a province we call a Constituent Nation but we can't have things imposed on us against our will, any vote in the Senate that would impact Awhaele requires a vote in our Parliament as well as in each of the other eight Constituent legislatures should it impact them and that does give us a say in policy as well, that's the position under the Achkaerinese Constitution."
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"Governor you're partially right but you are also partially misinformed. You've made an assumption that what a nation needs equates to what a nation wants. Does Achkaerin need membership in MICA to get the ties? If you ask around Valtheim you get the answer 'probably not' the reason is very simple the respect Achkaerin has for the policy of regional self determination championed by its two closest allies and not wanting to put either the King of East Moreland, the King of Seaforth or anyone else on a sticky wicket, however we're all unfortunately and inadvertently on that wicket because we find ourselves in an unprecedented situation, a nation home to natives governed to some degree from afar.
The Government in Valtheim unquestionably wants ties with MICA but rather than push for membership they're more inclined to pursue a straight up Achkaerin-MICA agreement because they understand the concern that we're attempting to navigate here, we came here today prepared to discuss all our options, my position as first minister and that of Her Majesty is that we want MICA membership we're here representing an island home to twenty million Illumic natives, we clearly want and need ties with our regional neighbours and if not MICA membership then we'll discuss our other options. Our benefits are spelled out in the charter - if you admit us we get access to all that, if we get a separate agreement we get whatever benefits that agreement gives us. What's your benefit? If we resolve this issue in a manner that's acceptable to everyone whether it be membership or other arrangements, you reduce any potential CSTO activity to the absolute minimum it can be in the region, you stop repeat performances of the Zimalia incident you mentioned, we tighten up on maritime criminal activity such as smuggling and most importantly we avoid creating a two tiered Illumic and we don't end up coming back and having the same conversation every time something happens."
OOC - Just so you're all aware I'm going to be on holiday between the 21st of June and 2nd of July, so don't expect much from me around then.
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Rutger still was of the mind that Achkaerin should be kept outside the organisation but he did believe a partnership could be workable.
"What I propose is the following." Rutger began handing his tablet clockwise around the table.
Recognising the unique position of the people of Awhaele
Desiring friendship between nations
Committed to ensuring the Illumic and Mhorish are guided by the natives of that region
The following agreement shall come into force between MICA nations and the Empire of Achkaerin.
1. There shall be a MICA liaison appointed by the monarch of Awhaele. This liaison must fit the following criteria.
a) They must have been born in Awhaele or resided there for at least five years.
b) They must not have served in the Achkaerin armed forces
c) They must not have held any political post within the Achkaerin government, the exception being that the post deals soley with Awhaele affairs.
2. The Liaison may attend MICA meetings unless at least two members oppose their attendance. While attending the Liaison may contribute to discussions. Should during talks two members request the Liaison to leave then they must do so.
3. The Liaison will be responsible for the upkeep of an up to date record of Achkaerin military forces and vessels in Awhaele.
4. Awhaele's monarch will utilise military assets at their disposal to contribute to the 3RA system.
5. Unless specified in other treaties good and materials entering a MICA nation from Awhaele shall do so tariff free so long as they are accompanied by documentation proving that they have been extracted, grown, processed or produced within Awhaele. This shall be reciprocated by Awhaele.
6. Unless specified in other treaties good and materials entering a MICA nation from Awhaele shall do so at a reduced tariff so long as they are accompanied by documentation proving that they have been extracted, grown, processed or produced within any other part of Achkaerin. This shall be reciprocated by Achkaerin
7. Travel for MICA nation and Achkaerin passport holders may enter the other nation for 30 days without a visa so long as they do not possess a criminal record or are deemed to be a national security risk.
8. Achkaerin agree that other than on grounds of security of Awhaele they will do nothing to militarise the MICA region.
9. Achkaerin agree that there shall not be a non-native military presence permanently based in Awhaele.
10. MICA nations agree to support the security of Awhaele so long as Achkaerin are not the aggressor in a situation that has placed a threat on the island.
11. MICA nations shall offer port facilities to Achkaerin vessels providing support to MICA operations.
12. This agreement comes into force on.......insert date......
13. Should either party wish to amend this agreement it must receive the approval of the Achkaerin Monarch and all MICA members.
14. Achkaerin may withdraw at any time by giving 30 days notice from the monarch of Achkaerin.
15. MICA may withdraw at any time following a vote to that effect winning a majority of MICA members support.
Signed....
8. MICA and Achkaerin agree to share security intelligence regarding the Mhorish and Illumic regions so far as doing so does not endanger their own national security.
9.
7.
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Siora and Vivian looked at the tablet, it was pretty good.
"I'm not going to comment on what the Chairwoman has said, because I believe she was querying King Rutger." Siora said "She is correct that this goes above our pay grade so to speak, I can recommend the Emperor endorse the agreement and it being reasonable I'm sure he will do so. Speaking for the two of us here I broadly speaking like it a lot but would propose making two minor changes:
Recognising the unique position of the people of Awhaele
Desiring friendship between nations
Committed to ensuring the Illumic and Mhorish are guided by the natives of that region
The following agreement shall come into force between MICA nations and the Empire of Achkaerin.
1. There shall be a MICA liaison appointed by the monarch of Awhaele. This liaison must fit the following criteria.
a) They must have been born in Awhaele or resided there for at least five years.
b) They must not have served in the Achkaerin armed forces
c) They must not have held any political post within the Achkaerin government, the exception being that the post deals soley with Awhaele affairs.
2. The Liaison may attend MICA meetings unless at least two members oppose their attendance The reason for exclusion shall be communicated to the Awhaele monarch at least 24 hours in advance of the meeting.. While attending the Liaison may contribute to discussions. Should during talks two members request the Liaison to leave then they must do so. No such exclusion may be enacted if a situation involving Awhaele is or is to be the subject of the discussion. An exclusion may be overriden by a majority vote of MICA members.
3. MICA shall communicate all decisions made in the absence of the liaison, in circumstances as detailed in article 2, to the Awhaele Monarch upon the talks conclusion.
4. The Liaison will be responsible for the upkeep of an up to date record of Achkaerin military forces and vessels in Awhaele.
5. Awhaele's monarch will utilise military assets at their disposal to contribute to the 3RA system.
6. Unless specified in other treaties good and materials entering a MICA nation from Awhaele shall do so tariff free so long as they are accompanied by documentation proving that they have been extracted, grown, processed or produced within Awhaele. This shall be reciprocated by Awhaele.
7. Unless specified in other treaties good and materials entering a MICA nation from Awhaele shall do so at a reduced tariff so long as they are accompanied by documentation proving that they have been extracted, grown, processed or produced within any other part of Achkaerin. This shall be reciprocated by Achkaerin
8. Travel for MICA nation and Achkaerin passport holders may enter the other nation for 30 days without a visa so long as they do not possess a criminal record or are deemed to be a national security risk.
9. Achkaerin agree that other than on grounds of security of Awhaele they will do nothing to militarise the MICA region.
10. Achkaerin agree that there shall not be a non-native military presence permanently based in Awhaele.
11. MICA nations agree to support the security of Awhaele so long as Achkaerin are not the aggressor in a situation that has placed a threat on the island.
12. MICA and Achkaerin agree to share security intelligence regarding the Mhorish and Illumic regions so far as doing so does not endanger their own national security.
13. MICA nations shall offer port facilities to Achkaerin vessels providing support to MICA operations.
14. This agreement comes into force on.......insert date......
15. Should either party wish to amend this agreement it must receive the approval of the Achkaerin Monarch and all MICA members.
16. Achkaerin may withdraw at any time by giving 30 days notice from the monarch of Achkaerin.
17. MICA may withdraw at any time,by giving 30 days notice, following a vote to that effect winning a majority of MICA members support.
18. Achkaerin and MICA may at any point within the notice period rescind the withdrawal by the same indicated method.
Signed....
"The amendments proposed to article two are intended to guarantee a level of fairness so for example if MICA were meeting to discuss something such a response to an attack on Awhaele that the liaison could not be excluded from that sort of thing, I understand the exclusion mechanism but I think it reasonable that if done in advance of the meeting that we are given both adequate notice of and the reason for the exclusion, the membership having the ability to override an exclusion gives our end of it reassurance that an exclusion is reasoned. My proposed article three ensures that in the event of the exclusion, decisions made by MICA are communicated in a timely manner. My last two amendment proposals make clear that MICA must also serve thirty days notice if it chooses to withdraw and that either party during that notice period can cancel the withdrawal. I believe these are fair amendments that provide the reassurances that would get it through the due process in the Senate."
OOC - section highlighted in yellow is because it appears to be duplication I would presume that one article is intended to govern goods travelling from Awhaele into MICA and the other is intended to govern the reverse, but I'm not entirely sure if that's correct.
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OOC- The bits in yellow should replace in Article 7 the word Awahele for Achkaerin. Sorry
"While I would normally agree that issues such as notice or a vote would be fair I do not think it appropriate." Rutger began to explain. "For example if we where discussing the recent coup attempt in Heyra, a situation where time is critical the idea of having 24 hours notice that a meeting would even take place wouldn't exist. Furthermore if once notice is given we have 24 hours to wait before continuing then it can be too slow. The nature of global geo-politics means that sometimes speed for discussions is needed. Furthermore the time to then establish a vote is further complicating matters. I have no issue with Article 3 though. As for the change in Article 17 I can agree to that. "
Rutger turned to the Heyran delegation. "It would be unfair to say that no Achakerin military assets could go to Awhaele and that they need to be out of the MICA region. As a result maintaining an active and up to date record is a fair compromise. If the assets are known then we in the organisation can take action if we feel there were too many being sent. As for defining the area I think we are all clear as to where we are discussing so I am not sure what you mean by having to define an area. "
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"We don't mind it being less than twenty four hours and I agree with you, we'd just like to know, ideally, before we put the liaison on a plane whether they're going to a meeting or not." Siora said "I think we should also be clear that any vote to override would have to be in a meeting where an exclusion was sought, ultimately we're just trying to communicate what we see as a way of you being able to enact an exclusion in a manner where we know it's not going to be abused. Article two is worded in a way that has two ways of an exclusion occurring one before a meeting and one during a meeting, in the case of before a meeting we're simply asking MICA to notify us of the exclusion and the reason for the exclusion, if it happens during a meeting then I don't see a problem with the members present in that meeting being able to override that, which in turn provides us with an assurance that the exclusion isn't being abused. Finally given your point on time, this is why I suggested preventing an exclusion where for example the meeting was to discuss for example a response to an attack on Awhaele simply because no one wants to have that conversation of that sort twice. I believe a more clear version of the article would be this"
2. The Liaison may attend MICA meetings unless at least two members oppose their attendance, the reason for exclusion shall be communicated to the Awhaele monarch as soon as possible,. While attending the Liaison may contribute to discussions. Should during talks two members request the Liaison to leave then they must do so, unless a majority of MICA members in the meeting vote to override. No such exclusion may be enacted if a situation involving Awhaele is or is to be the subject of the discussion.
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Rutger was unsure exactly how Achkaerin intended to do things but the comments from Siora didn't exactly fill him with confidence. "If you're going to be involved with an organisation such as this I would expect you to be able to get someone into a meeting within a couple of hours. We live in a time where if desperation called for we have secure video conferencing. Altona would utilise our ambassador in whatever nation the talks were happening if need be. We can't and must not permit a relationship with Awhaele to slow down the processes of MICA." Rutger addressed the others in the final point. "I believe the proposed Article 2 could be workable."
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OOC - For reference I believe this is what we currently have am I correct?
Recognising the unique position of the people of Awhaele
Desiring friendship between nations
Committed to ensuring the Illumic and Mhorish are guided by the natives of that region
The following agreement shall come into force between MICA nations and the Empire of Achkaerin.
1. There shall be a MICA liaison appointed by the monarch of Awhaele. This liaison must fit the following criteria.
a) They must have been born in Awhaele or resided there for at least five years.
b) They must not have served in the Achkaerin armed forces
c) They must not have held any political post within the Achkaerin government, the exception being that the post deals soley with Awhaele affairs.
2. The Liaison may attend MICA meetings unless at least two members oppose their attendance, the reason for exclusion shall be communicated to the Awhaele monarch as soon as possible,. While attending the Liaison may contribute to discussions. Should during talks two members request the Liaison to leave then they must do so, unless a majority of MICA members in the meeting vote to override. No such exclusion may be enacted if a situation involving Awhaele is or is to be the subject of the discussion.
3. MICA shall communicate all decisions made in the absence of the liaison, in circumstances as detailed in article 2, to the Awhaele Monarch upon the talks conclusion.
4. The Liaison will be responsible for the upkeep of an up to date record of Achkaerin military forces and vessels in Awhaele.
5. Awhaele's monarch will utilise military assets at their disposal to contribute to the 3RA system.
6. Unless specified in other treaties good and materials entering a MICA nation from Awhaele shall do so tariff free so long as they are accompanied by documentation proving that they have been extracted, grown, processed or produced within Awhaele. This shall be reciprocated by Awhaele.
7. Unless specified in other treaties good and materials entering a MICA nation from Achkaerin shall do so at a reduced tariff so long as they are accompanied by documentation proving that they have been extracted, grown, processed or produced within any other part of Achkaerin. This shall be reciprocated by Achkaerin
8. Travel for MICA nation and Achkaerin passport holders may enter the other nation for 30 days without a visa so long as they do not possess a criminal record or are deemed to be a national security risk.
9. Achkaerin agree that other than on grounds of security of Awhaele they will do nothing to militarise the MICA region.
10. Achkaerin agree that there shall not be a non-native military presence permanently based in Awhaele.
11. MICA nations agree to support the security of Awhaele so long as Achkaerin are not the aggressor in a situation that has placed a threat on the island.
12. MICA and Achkaerin agree to share security intelligence regarding the Mhorish and Illumic regions so far as doing so does not endanger their own national security.
13. MICA nations shall offer port facilities to Achkaerin vessels providing support to MICA operations.
14. This agreement comes into force on.......insert date......
15. Should either party wish to amend this agreement it must receive the approval of the Achkaerin Monarch and all MICA members.
16. Achkaerin may withdraw at any time by giving 30 days notice from the monarch of Achkaerin.
17. MICA may withdraw at any time,by giving 30 days notice, following a vote to that effect winning a majority of MICA members support.
18. Achkaerin and MICA may at any point within the notice period rescind the withdrawal by the same indicated method.
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"East Moreland will accept this arrangement"
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OOC- Unless anyone states otherwise we'll go with the Heyran version as of Thursday.
Recognising the unique position of the people of Awhaele
Desiring friendship between nations
Committed to ensuring the Illumic and Mhorish are guided by the natives of that region
The following agreement shall come into force between MICA nations and the Empire of Achkaerin.
1. There shall be a MICA liaison appointed by the monarch of Awhaele. This liaison must fit the following criteria.
a) They must have been born in Awhaele or resided there for at least five years.
b) They must not have served in the Achkaerin armed forces
c) They must not have held any political post within the Achkaerin government, the exception being that the post deals soley with Awhaele affairs.
2. The Liaison may attend MICA meetings unless at least two members oppose their attendance, the reason for exclusion shall be communicated to the Awhaele monarch as soon as possible,. While attending the Liaison may contribute to discussions. Should during talks two members request the Liaison to leave then they must do so, unless a majority of MICA members in the meeting vote to override. No such exclusion may be enacted if a situation involving Awhaele is or is to be the subject of the discussion.
3. MICA shall communicate all decisions made in the absence of the liaison, in circumstances as detailed in article 2, to the Awhaele Monarch upon the talks conclusion.
4. The Liaison will be responsible for the upkeep of an up to date record of Achkaerin military forces and vessels in Awhaele.
5. Awhaele's monarch will utilise military assets at their disposal to contribute to the 3RA system.
6. Unless specified in other treaties good and materials entering a MICA nation from Awhaele shall do so tariff free so long as they are accompanied by documentation proving that they have been extracted, grown, processed or produced within Awhaele. This shall be reciprocated by Awhaele.
7. Unless specified in other treaties good and materials entering a MICA nation from Achkaerin shall do so at a reduced tariff so long as they are accompanied by documentation proving that they have been extracted, grown, processed or produced within any other part of Achkaerin. This shall be reciprocated by Achkaerin
8. Travel for MICA nation and Achkaerin passport holders may enter the other nation for 30 days without a visa so long as they do not possess a criminal record or are deemed to be a national security risk.
9. Achkaerin agree that other than on grounds of security of Awhaele they will do nothing to militarise the MICA region.
10. Achkaerin agree that there shall not be a non-native military presence permanently based in Awhaele.
11. MICA nations may support the security of Awhaele so long as Achkaerin are not the aggressor in a situation that has placed a threat on the island.
12. MICA nations may elect to share security intelligence regarding the Mhorish and Illumic regions with Achkaerin so far as doing so does not endanger their own national security. Achkaerin will be expected to share intelliegence regarding the region in a likewise manner.
13. MICA nations shall consider offering port facilities to Achkaerin vessels providing support to MICA operations.
14. This agreement comes into force on.......insert date......
15. Should either party wish to amend this agreement it must receive the approval of the Achkaerin Monarch and all MICA members.
16. Achkaerin may withdraw at any time by giving 30 days notice from the monarch of Achkaerin.
17. MICA may withdraw at any time,by giving 30 days notice, following a vote to that effect winning a majority of MICA members support.
18. Achkaerin and MICA may at any point within the notice period rescind the withdrawal by the same indicated method.