Author Topic: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation  (Read 13492 times)

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Offline Beatrice

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Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« on: September 28, 2019, 02:02:55 AM »

Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation

Palace Ansemi, CSTO HQ

Quote
The Cross-Straits Treaty

Preamble:

The Parties to this Treaty reaffirm their faith in the principles of international order and stability, as well as their desire to live in peace with all peoples and all governments.

They are determined to safeguard the freedom, common heritage and civilisation of their peoples, founded on the principles of democracy, individual liberty and the rule of law. They seek to promote stability and well-being in the Cross-Straits area.

They are resolved to unite their efforts for collective defence and for the preservation of peace and security. They therefore agree to this Cross-Straits Treaty:

Article One:

The Parties undertake to settle any international dispute in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that the international peace, security and justice are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the principles set forth by this Treaty.

Article Two:

The Parties will contribute toward the further development of peaceful and friendly international relations by strengthening their free institutions, by bringing about a better understanding of the principles upon which these institutions are founded, and by promoting conditions of stability and well-being. They will seek to eliminate conflict in their international economic policies and will encourage economic collaboration between any or all of them.

Article Three:

In order more effectively to achieve the objectives of this Treaty, the Parties, separately and jointly, by means of continuous and effective self-help and mutual aid, will maintain and develop their individual and collective capacity to resist armed attack.

Article Four:

The Parties will consult together whenever, in the opinion of any of them, the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the Parties is threatened.

Article Five:

The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the Cross-Straits allies.

Article Six:

For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:

On the territory of any of the Parties or on any territory under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties,

On the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Mundus in which the forces of any of the Parties should be stationed or operating.

Article Seven:

Each Party declares that none of the international engagements now in force between it and any other of the Parties or any third State is in conflict with the provisions of this Treaty, and undertakes not to enter into any international engagement in conflict with this Treaty.

Article Eight:

The Parties hereby establish a Council, on which each of them shall be represented, to consider matters concerning the implementation of this Treaty. The Council shall be so organised as to be able to meet promptly at any time. The Council shall set up such subsidiary bodies as may be necessary; in particular it shall establish immediately a defence committee which shall recommend measures for the implementation of Articles 3 and 5.

Article Nine:

The Parties may, by unanimous agreement, invite any other State in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the Cross-Straits area to accede to this Treaty. Any State so invited may become a Party to the Treaty by depositing its instrument of accession with the government hosting the council. The Chairperson of the CSTO will inform each of the Parties of the deposit of each such instrument of accession.

Article Ten:

This Treaty shall be ratified and its provisions carried out by the Parties in accordance with their respective constitutional processes. The instruments of ratification shall be deposited as soon as possible with the Government of the First Empire of Rokkenjima, which will notify all the other signatories of each deposit. The Treaty shall enter into force between the States which have ratified it as soon as the ratification of the majority of the signatories.

Article Eleven:

This Treaty shall be deposited in the archives of the Governments of the First Empire of Rokkenjima, the Kingdom of Tytor and the Kingdom of Novincia. Duly certified copies will be transmitted by the Founding Governments to new members of the CSTO upon their ascension.

Members

The First Empire of Rokkenjima**
The Kingdom of Dartfordia**
The Kingdom of Tytor*
The Kingdom of Novincia*
The Second Empire of Ikhan
The Holy Empire of Achkaerin

Members of the Joint Protectorate Sphere:

Observers:

Historic Members:

The Communist Paradise of Quinntopia**
The Armed Republic of Kazarovia**
The Federation of Elpidia

* = Founding Member
** = Original Founding Member
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 05:49:34 PM by Beatrice »

Beatrice Anselmo
Grand Chancellor of the Independent Order
Empress of the First Empire of Rokkenjima

Factbook of the First Empire of Rokkenjima - Kingdom of Clysperis

Offline Beatrice

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2019, 06:41:41 AM »
Walking into the Palace again with the Flag of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation flying above brought about a great deal of nostalgia for the Empress.

"Friends, it's so good to meet with you here again under this roof. Our first order of business will be to select, through consensus, our first Secretary-General since the revival of the CSTO. To begin this process Rokkenjima would seek to nominate Retired Marshal Admiral Henry Cole, a man known to us all. Naturally I look forward to reviewing any candidates put forward by Tytor and Novincia, and am confident they, too, shall be just as qualified."

"Secondly, we must look to re-linking Tytor and Novincia into ICON; assuming both of your militaries still have assets which utilize the underlying technology this should be as simple as issuing new access keys to re-activate those assets. In addition, a new military installation upon Floodwater to increase ICON's radar capabilities in the Kyne, as well as additional satellites to increase ICON's space-based capabilities are all programs which the First Empire wishes to discuss with the Organisation."

"In addition, the First Empire shall seek to further ICON's radar capabilities through its positions in the Krimeon and Illumic, ensuring that our militaries maintain the ability to command a field of battle through information and instantaneous communications links. Should the Kingdom of Dartfordia rejoin the CSTO these capabilities would be expanded yet further."

Beatrice Anselmo
Grand Chancellor of the Independent Order
Empress of the First Empire of Rokkenjima

Factbook of the First Empire of Rokkenjima - Kingdom of Clysperis

Offline Tytor

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2019, 05:57:14 AM »
Virginia Cox, Tytorian ambassador to the CSTO, nodded in response to Beatrice's words.  She'd been named to her post practically the moment the Cross-Straits Treaty had been ratified and, though still inexperienced, she had plenty of enthusiasm for her work.

"Yes, ICON is an important thing to prioritize," she said, "I believe Tytorian military equipment is still ICON-compatible, though of course I would have to check to be certain.  As you say, though, the issue of secretary-general is definitely more pressing.  Now, we all are very well aware of Admiral Cole's contributions to the good of the region, particularly Rokkenjima, but I have been instructed to nominate former Tytorian prime minister Reginald St. George for the position.  I have a dossier[1] with me outlining St. George's qualifications.  I'm sure you'll find him more than fit for the job."


 1. OOC: One which I am probably not going to write up completely.  He was prime minister, and before that he was a career diplomat.  By the time he retired in 2011, the man had almost thirty years of foreign policy experience.
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Offline Beatrice

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2019, 06:10:43 AM »
"A fitting candidate indeed," Beatrice smiled. "I would like to take this opportunity to introduce Rokkenjima's Liaison to the CSTO, although she should be a familiar face to many of you. Evanthe Rhodes, Princess of Arovium," she continued as Evanthe joined them.

"Thank you," Evanthe said as she sat beside Beatrice. "As I'm sure many of you know it's been quite some time since I've been involved with the Imperial Government, the past few years I've spent in Seaforth and Somerset have brought both much joy and great challenges, however, I'm happy to be home and working with the CSTO as my first Rokkenjiman assignment since my return home."

"With the High Admiral and St. George being considered, I am eager to see if Novincia has someone in mind as well? Regardless of whom we select I am confident in their abilities and the confidence of their nations in putting them forward."

Beatrice Anselmo
Grand Chancellor of the Independent Order
Empress of the First Empire of Rokkenjima

Factbook of the First Empire of Rokkenjima - Kingdom of Clysperis

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2019, 04:13:22 AM »
OOC: We can establish the role of Secretary-General and other issues at a later time. However, there are matters which need to be addressed, so bear with me!

Evanthe took charge of the room with a solemn look, "As you all know the Kingdom of Tytor has been the target of a multi-pronged terrorist attack which has claimed between 2,000-5,000 lives. I offer my condolences to our allies while reassuring them that, just as in the best of times, the First Empire stands with Tytor in these dark hours. With that being said I hereby call for the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation to invoke Article V of the Cross-Straits Treaty, recognizing this as an attack upon our allied nations, while making it absolutely clear that the CSTO shall act swiftly, vigilantly and without mercy in the defence of our Tytorian allies. Following that, the CSTO shall make a statement and begin coordinating operations toward aiding our Tytorian allies in any manner they should require."

Beatrice Anselmo
Grand Chancellor of the Independent Order
Empress of the First Empire of Rokkenjima

Factbook of the First Empire of Rokkenjima - Kingdom of Clysperis

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2020, 07:59:44 AM »
Evanthe:

"As we consider the situation in Nueva Ardia naturally we should wish to see a new, independently verifiable referendum, to gauge the true support for the continuation of the Melos regime. This is a development which he is keen to prevent which leads me to believe he cannot be certain the results of a verifiable referendum would be as assured as one operated under the institutions of his government. Secondly, we should also consider the payments which Toshikawa has ceased paying to Nueva Ardians impacted by their genocide; the First Empire is prepared to utilize funds from the International Development Grant Program to see them restored, but only once a referendum has taken place and we can be certain the funds are helping those they are intended for. As for Melos himself, while questioning his legitimacy following the recent referendum is certainly a legitimate exercise, looking to the past may yield yet further answers."

"The First Empire believes that it is worth looking into the period of history following th Nueva Ardian monarchy. Following Claudio Penultimo suffering a coup at the hand of his brother, who was later assassinated, we can track Mr. Melos' rise to power. Combing through what facts are available requires additional investigation to fill in the holes which exist from that era, which is why I propose a joint investigation with the Achkaerinese to determine the extent of Mr. Melos' actions at the time, and whether or not he was involved in the assassination that seems to have propelled him to power. Make no mistake that this will be a major undertaking given the gaps we have already noticed in documented events, however, I am confident that the combined efforts of our agencies shall bring light to shed upon what truly transpired."

"For these purposes I would propose we invite a representative of the Achkaerinese intelligence services to join us in this pursuit."

Beatrice Anselmo
Grand Chancellor of the Independent Order
Empress of the First Empire of Rokkenjima

Factbook of the First Empire of Rokkenjima - Kingdom of Clysperis

Offline Tytor

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2020, 08:19:42 AM »
"The Kingdom of Tytor has no objections to involving Achkaerinese intelligence assets," Cox said, nodding gravely, "Given recent events, it might even be advisable for the Achkaerinese to take point on such an investigation.  We don't need the CSTO's concerns dismissed as a mere fringe opinion; the more international the objection to Melos's heavy-handedness, the more pressure he'll feel to actually be transparent in his actions.  That said," she continued thoughtfully, "We'll want to tread carefully with this.  The situation in Nueva Ardia being as volatile as it is, things could blow up very quickly if we're too heavy-handed ourselves."
His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater

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Offline Beatrice

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2020, 08:40:32 AM »
"Indeed," Evanthe nodded, "While Melos responds with heavy hands it would be prudent for us to respond with a delicate touch. I'll thus make the arrangements for a representative from the Holy Empire to join us here," she continued, making the necessary phone call.

Beatrice Anselmo
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Empress of the First Empire of Rokkenjima

Factbook of the First Empire of Rokkenjima - Kingdom of Clysperis

Offline Achkaerin

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2020, 09:55:18 PM »
There was one advantage to current circumstances around Pyrena - it meant that it didn't take much to get a member of Achkaerinese intelligence into a meeting in Rokkenjima in terms of logistics. It was a simple car journey for Kayleigh Pryde to get to the CSTO HQ, she was presently responsible for the security of the Anselmo family and was waiting to read the Anausa report that was due in the next few days. She'd had to go via the airport to pick up Eve Acheson the junior Royal Counsel, the Achkaerinese Emperor had wanted a legal mind on the case.

"Kayleigh Pryde and Eve Acheson" Kayleigh said to the receptionist "I believe we're expected."

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2020, 06:59:37 AM »
"Yes, right this way," the receptionist said as she led them to the the Organisation's meeting chambers.

"So glad you could join us on such short notice," Evanthe said as the two entered the room. "To condense what has been discussed thus far, we've determined that the heavy-handed actions of Mr. Melos need to be met with a delicate, but meaningful, response. Seeing a referendum take place under an independently verifiable mechanism is a key goal here, although we also believe there may be more questions regarding the legitimacy Mr. Melos enjoys beyond his recent, shall we term them, constitutional maneuvers. Thus we have agreed that an investigation alongside the Holy Empire is the best path forward, along with coordinating a diplomatic response between CSTO nations and the Achkaerinese."

"If I have missed anything, I'm certain Ms. Cox will be certain to go over them. Looking back at the period of time when Melos rose to power one can see a multitude of holes in history, with several tangents missing or beyond our present purview. Discovering just what truly happened in that time may present a key piece of the puzzle, and aid us in assuring that the Nueva Ardian people truly have a representative voice in their governance."

Beatrice Anselmo
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Empress of the First Empire of Rokkenjima

Factbook of the First Empire of Rokkenjima - Kingdom of Clysperis

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2020, 06:31:40 PM »
"I'm going to stop you right there." Kayleigh said "I want to make something very clear from the start we're talking primarily about events that took place five years ago in 2015. Events that were investigated at the time by Achkaerinese Intelligence. What examining that again allows is a fresh look at whether or not Melos was part of action that saw the Nueva Ardian Royal family ousted. It does not give any indication as to the legitimacy of the recent referendum in Nueva Ardia and it does not indicate what if any heavy handedness Melos may have engaged in. My responsibility here is to walk you through the history of five years ago, Eve Acheson here is the Junior Royal Counsel to the Achkaerinese Royal Family which in short makes her a very good legal professional her job is to explain the legalities."

Kayleigh took a breath before continuing

"So very briefly the history. The area that is presently the sovereign territory of Nueva Ardia is the ancestral home of the Andean People as they're called, we're talking tribes ruled by a leader and such. Over time that manifested into a Monarchy, the Ardian Empire then occupied those lands. Following the signing of the Treaty of Gowu in 1946[1] the Ardian Empire was dismantled and borders of states were drawn, Nueva Ardia as it is territory wise came into being, and given the history and culture it wasn't surprising that it became a Kingdom.

So to 2015, Claudio Penultimo was the King of Nueva Ardia and he was terminally ill, it was at this point that Claudio had those he trusted within his circle as it were to track down his children - of which there are four in age order these are Janelle Scrivens, Maki Hamer, Sora Aozora and Colton Statham each of them hidden away across Mundus. Two of them, the eldest two,  were found before things got messy - Abran Penultimo, Claudio's brother, ousted Claudio in a coup, Maki went to Nueva Ardia with appropriate protection because she was interested in what Nueva Ardia was like, she met Abran and while they were conversing Abran was assassinated by a sniper, we've never been able to track down the sniper though Achkaerinese intelligence is working on it.

The immediate aftermath of that event is fairly well known to some of you - Nueva Ardia went to the CTO and accused Achkaerin of assassinating Abran, resulting in the resolution that condemned Achkaerin, a resolution since stricken when we proved we didn't do it. However the assassination did the damage because it created a power vacuum and soon thereafter Melos rose to power and has been President ever since."

"Now what we don't know as stated earlier is the extent of Melos's involvement in either the assassination itself or the events surrounding it." Eve said "It could be murder, it could be conspiracy to commit murder we just don't know. Questions?"


OOC - very brief OOC explanation, everything stated in this post is ICly correct as far as I'm aware when it comes to the history because that is what was posted at the time. It has never been posted anywhere that Melos was involved in the assassination of Abran as such anything in that regard is hypothetical. This is because Gadshack RP'd NA up to the resolution of the assassination and condemnation then NA took a break for a few months when it came back in late 2015 Melos was President. So it's up to Dave to determine what the extent of Melos's involvement is if any.
 1. Filler name for end of Great War Treaty

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2020, 01:07:05 AM »
Cox had to resist the temptation to raise her hand before speaking.  Pryde reminded her forcefully of a professor she'd had while studying for her bachelor's degree.  "Just to make sure I understand the situation," she said, "Let's assume for the moment that Melos had something to do with Abran's assassination.  Where does that leave us?  If he, in effect, took power by subterfuge, does this give us more reason to suspect him of falsifying subsequent votes?  Or will it even affect the Nueva Ardia crisis at all?  Hypothetically speaking, of course."
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Offline Achkaerin

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2020, 01:54:11 AM »
It was Eve who answered

"Legally speaking if it was shown that Melos had been involved in Abran's assassination then as I said that's conspiracy to commit murder, probably also treason but we'll leave that out of it for now, the point being that it's a definitive criminal act which he can be pursued for and also could raise questions as to his legitimacy in the first place - profiting from a bad act. In terms of the second question if you were able to show a criminal involvement and prosecute Melos successfully then you in effect remove him from the board, now that's good in some respects but also potentially very bad without a solid amount of future thinking in terms of what happens next in Nueva Ardia. Now does any of that mean that he's potentially falsified votes? Well it's certainly something that could be looked at and if we do the one to look at is not the recent referendum but the 2019 presidential election, because if you believe he's responsible for polling stations closing early and shenanigans with the electoral register in a referendum held in late 2019 then it becomes possible that he has employed similar tactics in a Presidential election earlier in 2019. Once can be explained away as a logistical problem but if it's more than one vote then it's a pattern. Find the pattern if it exists and you add another string to your bow for the purposes of potentially getting this referendum re-run."

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2020, 05:17:37 PM »
"As we recognize the history of the Cross-Straits System, one fact which has long been considered an oddity of the progression of its evolution is the separation between the Organisation and the Union. With the permission of my colleagues I would wish to invite representatives from the Union to our headquarters to discuss a process which would see these institutions merge under one common banner: the Cross-Straits Organisation. This process will see the heritage and history of our institutions preserved while, at the same time, forging a stronger and more capable institution which is geared to address those matters of the present era."

"Upon acceptance of this proposal I will dispatch an invitation to both Achkaerin and Lakhzovia so we may join together and discuss what this new, unified, future will look like."

Beatrice Anselmo
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Empress of the First Empire of Rokkenjima

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2020, 12:32:29 PM »
"The Lakhzov Republic is thankful for the invitation and the opportunity to discuss the potential merger of the CSU and CSTO, as a newly accepted member of the former we hope not to come across as disagreeable, however we have some minor concerns that we would like some clarification on before we would be able to support such a unification.

Our primary concern is with some of the implications of article five. While we have no objection to the principle of viewing attacks on one member as an attack against all it is our view that this should be only in the case of unprovoked attack or where the attacker is the clear aggressor. The Lakhzov Republic would not be comfortable with a situation, for example, where a member state had pursued an aggressive and provocative policy that had increased tensions to the point where another nation made a preemptive strike upon their forces. That is not to say that we accuse any of the current members of being predisposed to try to enforce their will on others through intimidation tactics, blockades and threats of invasion, however we feel that in the case that a member state were to pursue such an approach to a non-member state we could not in good conscience use that nation's act of self-defence as a pretext for war on the basis of article five.

Now it is my hope that article one and eight provide a resolution to this concern, in that by article one member states would be required to attempt peaceful means of resolution in the first instance, and that failing this that under article eight a full meeting of the Council would discuss potential escalation so that any aggressive pressure tactics were endorsed by the organisation as a whole. It is our opinion that if a member were to pursue such a course of action without consultation or agreement of the Council that any attack resulting from it would not meet the threshold to activate article five.

If someone could confirm or clarify our understanding of this mechanism we would greatly appreciate it as it will be critical in helping us formulate our position on the merger."

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2020, 08:30:35 PM »
Crown Princess Serenity was no stranger to this sort of meeting she listened attentively to the Lakhzovian and nodded, she had similar concerns and was happy to hear them raised.

"In my view we have two primary parts to this concept of merging the two organisations, the first is what our Lakhzovian friends have begun by asking for clarifications in that this will ensure we're all on the same page and same understanding before moving forward. So the first stage is to clarify concerns and then the second is to formulate how this potential merger might work and what the finished product would look like." Serenity said "To the first, I have concerns similar to those just raised, in that article five and article six of the current CSTO charter do not make clear the circumstances under which the clause can be activated beyond an armed attack that occurs as per the definition of article six.

I will defer to Rokkenjima and Tytor for that clarification but as a hopefully helpful contribution I would say that when the CIS was in existence the understanding was that in order for the mutual defence clause to be activated, the attack against the member state had to be unprovoked. My other observation looking at this is that I'd like an understanding moving forwards that any military action undertaken under a Cross-Straits banner be compliant with the Uppsalla Convention, I don't believe that's too difficult to achieve here in a room where all our nations are signatories."

Offline Beatrice

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2020, 02:35:21 AM »
"For Article V to be invoked, the understanding has always been similar as to that described for the CIS. Furthermore, compliance with the Uppsala Convention is something which we can ensure is codified in the Charter. Scenarios in which we would see the Articles employed would be employed, beyond the obvious, are in need of an update and that is a process we can explore at these discussions."

"Rokkenjima will leave the floor open for concerns, as well as discussion on the above mentioned topics," Princess Euphemia would say.

Beatrice Anselmo
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Empress of the First Empire of Rokkenjima

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2020, 02:54:56 AM »
"I think we are debating the wrong issue here," Prime Minister Thatcher, in attendance because of the seriousness of the issue, said, "My government does not believe that a merger between the CSTO and the CSU is in the best interests of either organization, as the two are different in both form and purpose.  The Kingdom of Tytor values its sovereignty, which, as some here may remember, is the reason why Tytor never joined the CSU to begin with.  With the political climate being what it is in Tsargrad, I feel I can say with some level of certainty that a full merger between the CSTO and the CSU would be voted down by the Tytorian Parliament, thus leaving Tytor isolated from those it considers friends.  Therefore, I suggest we take an alternative route to accomplish the goal of this debate.  Instead of merging the CSTO and the CSU into a single Cross-Straits Organization, I propose that we supercede them with a more inclusive Cross-Straits Community.  This CSC, as I am sure we would inevitably call it, would serve as a formal umbrella organization, including the CSTO and the CSU as subsidiary organs.  Membership in one of the subsidiaries would bestow membership in the Community, and I imagine would necessarily be a prerequisite to the same, but there would be no requirement for a CSC member to belong to both organs.  In this way, we would be able to bolster correlation and cooperation between the two while simultaneously allaying the concerns of those who take issue with elements of one or the other, whether that be the CSU's economic requirements, the CSTO's mutual defense clause, or something else entirely.  Make no mistake: I want to see this discussion bear fruit as much as anyone here; however, I feel that the pessimistic appraisal I have given you of my countrymen's likely reaction to the initial proposal is the only honest one I can offer."
His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater

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Offline Beatrice

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2020, 03:10:53 AM »
"I'm in agreement," Euphemia said once Thatcher had made her proposal. "Recognizing the historical separation of the two institutions, and the reasons for them, I believe that the proposed Cross-Straits Community is the best path forward. Preserving the present obligations for those who are a member of either Cross-Straits organisation, but have no interest in the other, allows for us to move forward in a manner which ensures the needs of all Cross-Straits nations are best met. I would recommend, at the very least, that we see between the two 'subsidiaries', a Foreign Affairs Commission to ensure cohesion between the CSU and the CSTO; if they are to be under one parent, it makes sense that, on some level, their views are aligned on when it comes to matters of international importance."

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Offline Achkaerin

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2020, 12:15:01 PM »
Serenity sighed, it was common sense to ask for clarifications when nations were expanding their obligations wasn't it? Still at least they had that. Now the room had moved to the second question.

"An umbrella is possible and workable as far as I can tell however and I'll defer to the CSU Secretary General in a minute on this I would think that the CSC level itself would need to be the decision making body on the day to day stuff such as membership and administration of the 'organisation' and so on. So on that basis I think we're probably looking at taking the Cross Straits Council, Council of Head of States and the Cross Straits Commission out of the CSU and putting them at the CSC level, this way we don't have to reinvent or duplicate the wheel, Princess Euphemia talks about a commission let's use the commission we have it's got all the bases covered we just need the commissioners to be chairing relevant discussions and being spokespersons when required, let's put the decision making at the level of this body where all members across both subsidiaries are represented. We are I suspect looking at a rejig of the CSU as we move stuff around and a slight rewording on the CSTO in terms of what's been said." Serenity said "Secretary General?"

Ĺosa Càidh, the Secretary General of the CSU looked up from her notes.

"I believe what is being discussed is achievable but I do think we'd need to separate elements of the Union out if this is to be done. I suspect that while some may not be fans of the CSFTA, they may like the idea of the funds the Union has so it makes sense to me that if the Union is to come under another banner that we separate elements out, one issue here would potentially be the Cross Straits Court of Justice however I'm confident we can work something out there. I think what needs to happen here is that we need to agree a working model for example so let's say we agree to the idea of the CSC, we'd need an agreement as in an initial treaty on how the community level works, I think we'd then want to table a summit to formalize what we agree here and to then discuss other things, because again I think the membership of the CSU that we've got here would have to go away and look at the CSU treaty and decide what elements could work in some way across the membership of the CSC, and I'd encourage the CSTO to do the same. However I think for right now we may want to treat this more as a concept idea rather than detail." Ĺosa said

Offline Tytor

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2020, 04:44:36 PM »
Thatcher frowned.  "That has the potential to completely ruin the point of keeping the CSTO and the CSU separate," she said, "The more you take out of the CSU to put at the higher level, the closer you get to simply having the CSU be the higher level, and then we run into the exact same problems with ratification that we had before.  So let's not get too hasty with stripping down the CSU just yet; rather, let's instead take a look at what we want from integration and act from there."
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Offline Achkaerin

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2020, 05:18:28 PM »
"You appear to misunderstand Prime Minister, though maybe a fair amount was lost in the delivery which I hope you'll forgive." Serenity said "The CSU is already fairly close to an umbrella organisation in its own right, however with the Cross Straits Community as the umbrella which is your proposal it becomes more advantageous for all of us to treat aspects of the CSU and the defence clause of the CSTO as independent subsidiary parts which nations can choose to participate in if they wish to do so. At the end of the day decision making at the community level is going to be required, most obviously because if a nation applies to join - under your proposal they're not applying to join the CSTO, they're not applying to join the CSU, they're applying to join the CSC, so membership decisions are community level. However the proposition to put elements presently in the CSU at the CSC level doesn't elevate the CSU to the higher level, because it's the community level all CSC members would have representation there, so Tytor would gain membership of that which is moved to Community level is what is being suggested. It's simply more efficient to move an already existing and experienced administrative body into place than create a new one. Perhaps if Ms Caidh were to give us a rough idea on paper of what she's envisioning?"

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2020, 03:56:58 AM »
Thatcher resisted the urge to throw up her hands in frustration.  "Your Highness, I'm afraid it is you who misunderstands, not I," she said, "The very point of creating an umbrella organization, which you seem to have missed, is to allow its organs to retain their own membership rules.  Under my proposal, a nation would not apply to join the Community, but rather either the CSTO or the CSU.  Upon admission to one or the other, membership in the Community would then be automatic.  The problem with your interpretation is that it has the potential to be just as threatening to those who preach national sovereignty as the CSU, and frankly I would not be able to sell it to Parliament.  The people of Tytor are not looking for additional councils and commissions to belong to; these things would not be incentives, but deterrents to those in Parliament who are on the fence on this, not to mention those who are leery of the commitments Tytor has already.  The present consensus at home is that Tytor does not need those aspects of the Cross-Straits Union which you have suggested would move up to the Cross-Straits Community -- if it did, then why wouldn't Tytor have already joined the CSU?  If we are proposing making things like the Cross-Straits Court of Justice a requirement for membership in the CSTO, then I will see a parliamentary revolt not only from the opposition, but from members of my own governing coalition, no matter how eloquently I may speak on their behalf.  So, again, let's not start from the idea that we'll be trying to make the CSC as much like the CSU as we can, and instead talk about what is absolutely essential in the interest of greater correlation between the CSU and the CSTO, and go from there.  Otherwise, we risk getting ahead of ourselves and shooting for the moon, only to find that we don't even have the range to hit the clouds."



OOC: In case it's not abundantly obvious here, Thatcher is not personally opposed to the CSU and its parts; if it were up to her, Tytor would have signed up four years ago.  But it's not up to her.  As a political pragmatist, Thatcher would like very much to return home with something Parliament will find palatable, which is why she is so firmly resisting her own preferred scenario.  Oh, and using the Council of Heads of State as an enticement for a nation with a purely ceremonial head of state smacks of research failure on Serenity's part; while King Michael would happily attend if invited, he (by what was largely his own choosing) would have no power to participate authoritatively as a representative of the Tytorian government or to act on anything the Council decided -- at best, he would watch the proceedings and relay the Council's decisions and his recommendations to the prime minister, who would then decide what to do with that information.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2020, 04:07:58 AM by Tytor »
His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater

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Offline Achkaerin

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2020, 10:41:00 AM »
Serenity almost rolled her eyes why did people always assume that changes weren't being made as they went along? All she was proposing was something akin to the CIS or even CNN but with changes in wording built in to ensure that nations weren't participating in areas they didn't want to.

"Your proposal does nothing other than maintain the current situation, but dress it up in a new frock. It doesn't put a link between the two organisation's, which is what is needed here, it doesn't ensure correlation whereas my method does and is nowhere near as threatening as you believe.

As far as I'm concerned there's no point in the Cross Straits Community existing as an entity in this unless it exists to do something, if it is the umbrella then it is the bridge and if it is the bridge then it handles the common interest matters, we're talking membership, administration, treaty amendments and so on. Now interestingly these are three of the four things the CSU discusses the fourth being matters such as sanctions, now all four of those things would now make much more sense to be determined at the community level, membership because if we're going to say that a nation is to attain membership of the CSC then it should be the community as a whole that makes the decision, the CSTO only has as members 50% of the nations in this room and the CSU has 75%, logically the community level has 100% so that definitely makes more sense to me. The administration stuff can easily be done by the Cross Straits Commission and I see no issue with that being how it is done, treaty amendments  is a difficult one because again there's the membership spread but I'm confident there are solutions there. Sanctions are a common denominator across the CSU and CSTO so surely it's common sense to discuss them once at community level rather than have the same discussion twice in two different places and risk conflicting results.

The reality is that all the decisions that the CSU presently makes would make more sense to be done at the community level, because for one reason or another they would fall across both elements, which is why moving what would then be an obsolete decision making body to the community level makes sense. Now we could create a new body at community level to do this but the result would be the same in terms of decision making, and as any CSU rearrangement doesn't affect Tytor I don't see the issue here beyond a misunderstanding of my point which is simply that there are decisions, that to build and ensure correlation between the two existing Cross Straits organisations, should be taken at a community level."

Offline Lakhzovia

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2020, 02:36:04 PM »
"If the proposal is to simply create an umbrella organisation in title alone but with full independence of both organisations then I am unsure of what the purpose of these discussions are. It seems that what Tytor is proposing is a purely cosmetic change that has no real implications for the actual functioning of either existing organisation, if such is the case then while we do not have any real objections we are left wondering what ultimate purpose is served in doing so?"

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2020, 06:35:57 PM »
"I think Prime Minister that you've thrown us off a little." Ĺosa said "You've proposed an umbrella, specifically the Cross Straits Community and then in presenting the idea suggested that:

This CSC, as I am sure we would inevitably call it, would serve as a formal umbrella organization, including the CSTO and the CSU as subsidiary organs.  Membership in one of the subsidiaries would bestow membership in the Community, and I imagine would necessarily be a prerequisite to the same, but there would be no requirement for a CSC member to belong to both organs.  In this way, we would be able to bolster correlation and cooperation between the two while simultaneously allaying the concerns of those who take issue with elements of one or the other, whether that be the CSU's economic requirements, the CSTO's mutual defense clause, or something else entirely.

Use of the word subsidiary conjures up the images of for example different parts of a company, to some extent they're independent but all answerable to the top and all part of the same whole company. So my understanding of that and I would guess that of the Crown Princess and in fact presumably the Princess of Rokkenjima and judging off the last comment our Lakhzovian friend is that the CSC as analogous to the parent company would hold the power.

Now my understanding of the discussion on that proposal is that Crown Princess agrees with most of it but would suggest breaking apart aspects of the CSU which has the potential to bolster correlation and cooperation between the members and she has an issue with the membership situation in that she thinks that it should be reversed, I can understand why that's a reasonable idea because the potential of one of the CSTO or CSU to admit a member and thereby that member to part of the CSC could be akin to letting a fox into the henhouse I think it more than fair that the entirety of the CSC membership be able to take that decision collectively. Also like our colleague from Lakhzovia I am wondering why the CSC is even proposed if it's not going to do anything, what authority does it have? How is it going to make sure that the various elements are all on the same page? These are the two key questions in this, the Crown Princess's suggestion does answer these by giving the community level the decision making authority but what we've not heard so far is what the purpose of the CSC is in this respect as far as the Prime Minister intends."

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2020, 12:10:46 AM »
The course of the conversations had roused Evanthe to the Chambers who, after being briefed on the discourse to this point took a seat next to Euphemia.

"I recognize the concerns and points of view which have been presented thus far. I believe that we've seen a great compromise as we've moved from a merger between the Union and the Organisation to the "umbrella" of the Cross-Straits Community. I believe we should see the Community addressing matters of membership and handling any amendments which should be necessary as the Community grows and evolves, while seeing that institutions to address present organs at the Community level are sorted so we can have an effective organisation which addresses the concerns of Prime Minister Thatcher while meeting the needs and goals of our friends in the Union."

"I believe that the efforts presented thus far preserve the conditions which are being sought by the Kingdom, though if there's anything which should be elaborated upon now that I am in the room I would be interested in hearing such issues. Clearly defining decision making responsibilities at the levels where they are appropriate, and sorting the institutions out, should resolve things nicely and we'll all be able to return to our governments with results that will establish for us a Community which best meets our respective needs."

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2020, 11:34:15 AM »
"I think what we've got here is a situation where we're in need of considering the key issue of how we ensure that the CSTO and CSU keep as much of their independence as possible but don't end up contradicting each other. We all understand this but have different opinions on how far that needs to go and I suspect this is guided by what we need to achieve in order to get it through our respective legislative bodies. The CSC as the umbrella becomes the leadership level and therefore the oversight level of the community as a whole. So it occurs to me that perhaps the best way of constructing the bridge between the CSU and CSTO begins by putting the respective leaderships at the community level and having them lead from there, decision making can still be made at the lower level but perhaps leadership should not be of one or the other but of the community as  a whole. We should also possibly consider a bare bones diplomatic set of obligations and some basic administration points to go into the community level something perhaps like this." Serenity said, while she'd been talking she'd been writing away in her notebook

Quote
Cross-Straits Community Proposal

Part I:Definitions

1. The Cross-Straits Community (CSC) is a term defined as the combined membership total of all Cross-Straits bodies.

2. A Cross Straits body is any organisation that has the term "Cross-Straits" in its name.

3. The current list of Cross-Strait bodies (not including the CSC) are:
  • The Cross-Straits Union (Economic)
  • The Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation (Defence)

Part II: Leadership and Administration

4. The Cross-Straits Secretariat shall be the leadership body of the CSC, it shall be led by a Secretary General who shall internationally represent the CSC.

5. The Secretary General shall be elected by the Cross-Straits Community for a term of one year.

6. The Cross-Straits Commission shall be the administration body of the CSC, it shall be led by a Chief Commissioner who shall be the chief administrator of the Community and Commissioners responsible for specific portfolios, the Commissioners shall report to the Secretary General and the membership as necessary. The full list of Commission portfolios shall be:
  • Chief Commissioner
  • Commissioner of Foreign Affairs
  • Commissioner of International Aid and Development
  • Commissioner of Defence
  • Commissioner of Justice
  • Commissioner for Economy and Finance
  • Commissioner for the Internal Market and Trade
  • Commissioner for Agriculture and the Environment
  • Commissioner for Climate Change
  • Commissioner for Maritime Affairs and Fisheries
  • Commissioner for Home and Cultural Affairs
  • Commissioner of Science and Innovation
  • Commissioner for Health
  • Commissioner for Education and Youth

7. Members of the Cross-Straits Secretariat and Cross-Straits Commission shall be regarded as representatives of the CSC and not any one nation.

Part III Powers and Obligations of the Cross-Straits Community

8. Cross-Straits Community member states agree to maintain active embassies with each other and to have their ambassadors present themselves promptly (within 24 hours) upon receipt of an official summons by another members government.

9. Cross-Straits Community member states agree to settle disputes arising between them by peaceful means when at all possible using the Secretariat or Commission as a mediator if required.

10. There shall be held annually a Cross-Straits Summit to which all CSC members shall be invited, the venue shall be determined by the CSC membership.

11. Only a decision of the Cross-Straits Community can create a new Cross-Straits body or alter the provisions of this document.

Part 4 Miscellaneous

12. The Cross-Straits Community and other Cross-Straits bodies shall be headquartered at ___________

"Now in terms of the application of this we'd be seeing the CSU have to amend its treaty to remove articles relevant to the Commission and diplomatic policy, on the CSTO side this would see the Commissioner of Defence having to be across what the CSTO is doing so it may be worth that commissioner being permitted to sit in on CSTO sessions. I'd also suggest the CSTO amend its charter to include the Uppsalla provision mentioned earlier as well as maybe clear up the article on the defence trigger, but that's an issue for the CSTO.

Apart from that it's down to determining where the organisation so to speak is to be based and then to consider whether Achkaerin and Lakhzovia might if they're willing join the CSTO as this would go some way to creating a core group and ensuring the cooperation and collaboration across both bodies we currently have."

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2020, 02:32:33 AM »
"The First Empire fully supports the direction this proposal is taking," Evanthe replied. "I'm certain we can see an Uppsala provision adopted by the CSTO; it's been an informal understanding that we operate within the provisions of Uppsala, but having it formally stated would be preferable. Clearly stating that self-defense is a perquisite for the Articles in question should also be a fairly straight-forward process for the Organisation to tackle."

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Offline Lakhzovia

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Re: Headquarters of the Cross-Straits Treaty Organisation
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2020, 08:25:55 PM »
"Lakhzovia is supportive of the Achkaerin proposal and has no objections."