Author Topic: Proposal for a new RP Rule  (Read 688 times)

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Offline Altona

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Proposal for a new RP Rule
« on: June 04, 2022, 01:26:47 PM »
Following the incident of today I propose that the following RP rule should be put in place regarding Retcons. Markus came up with the ideas and I have edited, borrowed his post. Hope thats OK.

1.Players are allowed to retcon anything they post for 24 hours after posting it ( later edits don't count when counting the 24 hours period, it start from when you post) assuming it has no replies.

2.Should a reply have been posted then it can only be retconned with agreement between players with RP Mod to moderate if no agreement reached.

3. Retcons should only be permitted for IC reasons and a reason for the retcon should be explained. Upon retconning a note should be left explaining it in the thread, this can later be deleted by a Mod.
 
4.Anything after that is set in stone.

5. Factbooks do not count

6. Closed RP can be retconed with the consent of all players involved.

7. Further retcons can be allowed only after submitting to the RP Mod and giving their approval.

Offline BenOfTheIwi

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2022, 01:31:19 PM »
10000% support this. I'd be interested to know an IC reason for this latest thing.

Offline DaveIronside

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2022, 02:49:20 PM »
Agree that this is a good idea

Offline Markus

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2022, 07:34:00 PM »
My thanks to Altona for putting my idea here in a better written form and further developing it.

I (obviously) support the proposal.

Offline Achkaerin

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2022, 07:47:25 PM »
I would personally scrap the second point because it's wide open to abuse, 24 hours for the player to retcon and then requiring the RP Mod's agreement after that should be more than sufficient and we don't give an abuseable veto to other players.

Offline BenOfTheIwi

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2022, 10:20:03 AM »
I think point two should stay. It encourages users to find a workable compromise and I'd hope that would happen meanwhile the RP Mod can step in if that doesn't work. If we don't place an expectation on people to try and sort their own stuff out with each other like grown ups then we make more work for the RP Mod and frankly at present the situation sees retcons wrecking other peoples work with no consideration. I also think that just because the latest situation appears to have been moved on from we shouldn't forget about this.

Offline Achkaerin

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2022, 10:39:28 AM »
Point 2 gives anyone who happens to write a two line press statement or news article an effective veto over another players RP. Now if it’s in the same thread I’d have no problem.

Offline Nova

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2022, 10:48:08 AM »
Yes, which is precisely the point and what should be. As to never get what happened last week ever again.
People don't reply to a press statement in the same thread, but well in their own press statement thread, or else, or throw meetings, or stuff. So that's an irrelevant argument against it.

Also people got to be mature at one point: it's a game, and like any game you don't control everysingle metric, you can't control other's players action, that's why you have to think it through before for example. Otherwise, in the present situation, people can -without saying any name- effectively control how other players reacts, by simply retconning their thing if they didn't like the players' reactions, and amend it, as to be seen in a more positive way etc. That makes the fun of RPing entirely lost IMO. Greatest RPs came from unpredictable things from what I could observe. People can script if they want, but can't force others to such. And I personally hate such.
Like I did something, it upsetted Samantra, rather than retconning it I just went along with such mistake, proposed a meeting, no treaty or anything came out of it, however it was still one of my favourite RP ever, because the story is what is fun. Claiming to be all perfect with a big military and perfect diplomatic line is boring -since such is impossible, as have proven the many retcons-, but that's just my perspective.

I've been personally impacted by at least 11 retcons made by Beatrice on which I had already wrote stuff, so I'm all in for those rules.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2022, 10:55:12 AM by Nova »
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Offline BenOfTheIwi

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2022, 12:01:04 PM »
Point 2 gives anyone who happens to write a two line press statement or news article an effective veto over another players RP. Now if it’s in the same thread I’d have no problem.

I think a press statement or news article is just as relevant as any other post. The latest issue could have been handled via what I'll call an IC retcon, discussions could have taken place, shifts in policies etc, adaptations etc. and as a result the Rokkenjima fleet never goes to the Krimeon. However what we got was the fact that myself and Heyra among others started to put in motion a series of things legitimately aimed at acting as a counter to it. Seeing this and various comments on Discord rubbishing the move it was retconned. Other members of the region don't deserve to be a beta test for someones RP. In reali life if a government misread a situation or deployment they have to PR themselves out of it. Only by not permitting easy retcons do we stop this continued (see Nova's post) misuse of retcon ended. It should be hard to retcon.

Offline Markus

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2022, 06:14:38 AM »
Anyone else has anything to add? Regardless of how the final version of the rule will be I want TIO to have such a rule as to avoid future problems regarding retcons or at least better manage them.

Offline Nova

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2022, 08:38:00 AM »
Same. Definitely now. I consider that those rules are active as to respond to some RPs now.
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Offline Cass

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2022, 12:03:13 AM »
My understanding is we have under the recent changes three RP "Managers" (I think thats what they are called) Tytor, Diato and Markus. To change an RP Rule they need to sort it out. To do so "all amendments require a unanimous vote and the consultation of the Roleplay Moderator and where needed the consultation of the cartographer)"

We've seen Rob say its a good idea on Discord but I would appreciate it being done here too so its kind of on record. We've also got Markus seeming to approve this. We need to get things sorted quicker than this.

Offline Achkaerin

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2022, 12:06:28 AM »
Agreed, I'd suggest the three of them vote on this.

Offline RobertAgira

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2022, 12:09:43 AM »
Quote
1.Players are allowed to retcon anything they post for 24 hours after posting it ( later edits don't count when counting the 24 hours period, it start from when you post) assuming it has no replies.

2.Should a reply have been posted then it can only be retconned with agreement between players with RP Mod to moderate if no agreement reached.

3. Retcons should only be permitted for IC reasons and a reason for the retcon should be explained. Upon retconning a note should be left explaining it in the thread, this can later be deleted by a Mod.
 
4.Anything after that is set in stone.

5. Factbooks do not count

6. Closed RP can be retconed with the consent of all players involved.

7. Further retcons can be allowed only after submitting to the RP Mod and giving their approval.

RobertAgira approves this message.

Offline Tytor

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2022, 12:24:45 AM »
I would adjust the second point as follows:

"2. Should a reply have been posted within 24 hours of the original post, then it can only be retconned with a six hour notice to allow for objection by those affected. If objection is made, then agreement between players must be reached, with RP Mod to moderate if no agreement is forthcoming. reached."

This edit is my attempt at a compromise between those who like the original clause and those who fear it could be abused.  Beyond that, I'm willing to support the measure.
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Online Daitō

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2022, 05:41:10 AM »
Not a roleplay manager, but this sounds good to me
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Offline Markus

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2022, 03:25:42 PM »
I would adjust the second point as follows:

"2. Should a reply have been posted within 24 hours of the original post, then it can only be retconned with a six hour notice to allow for objection by those affected. If objection is made, then agreement between players must be reached, with RP Mod to moderate if no agreement is forthcoming. reached."

This edit is my attempt at a compromise between those who like the original clause and those who fear it could be abused.  Beyond that, I'm willing to support the measure.

Since we have players all over the world, I think it would be better to allow a 24 hours notice instead of just 6 so to give all affected players a chance to object.

As I said, I am fine with either proposals.

Offline Markus

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2022, 05:38:52 AM »
So how do we proceed further?

Offline Achkaerin

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2022, 02:56:15 PM »
So how do we proceed further?

I believe at this point Tytor and Altona need to indicate which of the six/twenty four hour option they favor. Once the three of you are in agreement that can be taken as the new rule.

Offline Geo

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2022, 03:55:09 PM »
Personally, if I may interrupt, I'd like the 24 hour proposal to be the taken one, given how we have members across the globe, who work, eat and sleep at different times, and thus may miss a 6-hour window without ever knowing it existed. 24 hours gives plenty of time for people to put their hands up.

Offline Altona

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2022, 02:38:42 PM »
I support it saying this

1.Players are allowed to retcon anything they post for 24 hours after posting it ( later edits don't count when counting the 24 hours period, it start from when you post) assuming it has no replies.

2.Should a reply have been posted within 24 hours of the original post, then it can only be retconned with a 24 hour notice to allow for objection by those affected. If objection is made, then agreement between players must be reached, with RP Mod to moderate if no agreement is forthcoming.

3. Retcons should only be permitted for IC reasons and a reason for the retcon should be explained. Upon retconning a note should be left explaining it in the thread, this can later be deleted by a Mod.
 
4.Anything after that is set in stone.

5. Factbooks do not count

6. Closed RP can be retconed with the consent of all players involved.

7. Further retcons can be allowed only after submitting to the RP Mod and giving their approval.

Offline Tytor

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2022, 06:13:30 PM »
The reason I picked 6 hours instead of 24 was because I was trying to avoid making the process even more drawn out than it already is shaping up to be, but if the rest of y'all think 24 is better, I'll support that.
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Offline Markus

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2022, 06:29:24 PM »
I support it saying this

1.Players are allowed to retcon anything they post for 24 hours after posting it ( later edits don't count when counting the 24 hours period, it start from when you post) assuming it has no replies.

2.Should a reply have been posted within 24 hours of the original post, then it can only be retconned with a 24 hour notice to allow for objection by those affected. If objection is made, then agreement between players must be reached, with RP Mod to moderate if no agreement is forthcoming.

3. Retcons should only be permitted for IC reasons and a reason for the retcon should be explained. Upon retconning a note should be left explaining it in the thread, this can later be deleted by a Mod.
 
4.Anything after that is set in stone.

5. Factbooks do not count

6. Closed RP can be retconed with the consent of all players involved.

7. Further retcons can be allowed only after submitting to the RP Mod and giving their approval.

I also support this.

Offline Achkaerin

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Re: Proposal for a new RP Rule
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2022, 06:41:56 PM »
Ok with the three RP Managers in agreement this is now in effect (I'll do admin stuff for this shortly)