Author Topic: Motion for the Recall of the Grand Chancellor of the Independent Order  (Read 1076 times)

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Online Daitō

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Fellow Orderians,

The Constitution of the Independent Order, as revised in April of 2022, states that as part the Grand Chancellor's role is, quote, "Administering the forum, the official chatroom of the region, the NationStates region, and any other official off-forum locations". However, as we have seen time and time again, both under the current constitution as well as that which preceded it, our Grand Chancellor, Beatrice, has shown herself incapable of fairly executing that task, as can be seen with the recent banning of Geo for merely speaking in a channel which was not locked nor had any reason to be prohibited. This act is merely the continuation of a long line of incidents involving our Grand Chancellor, who has normally executed her job with the respect which such a title deserves. We saw it when Nova left the region, citing in the post titled "Are we masochists?" an inability on the part of Beatrice to differentiate between real life and the rp, which has led to many instances whereupon the most benign of criticism has been met with hostility and further abuses of her power.

We also saw on repeated occasions that Beatrice has caused drama within the community. One of the most visible cases of this are the spats between her and Cass starting over interpretations of international law, ultimately building up to the drafting of the current constitution. Such actions as these, as well as numerous more cases, suggest to any prospective new members that the Independent Order is not a community which is worth remaining in. After all, the Office of the Grand Chancellor is also required to conduct diplomacy with other regions and is, for lack of a better term, the effective face of our community. Can we really be a welcoming community while such an important figure, whether intentionally or not, acts in such a manner that runs contrary to that? Can we accept someone who has shown themselves time and time again willing to abuse their authority and privileges when someone slights them, rather than genuinely causing trouble for the community as a whole? I think not, and so, though I wish I was not forced to take this most drastic of steps, I am formally calling for the recall of Beatrice as Grand Chancellor of the Independent Order, with CGJ to take her position until such a time as elections for a new Grand Chancellor can be held. I cite Article 8, Section VI of the Criminal Code, which states, quote, "Anyone who knowingly commits other actions unbecoming of an administrator or moderator...is guilty of the offense of Abuse of Administrative Powers under this law and liable to a punishment at judicial discretion." I recognize that some among us may take issue with this decision, but we have reached a point where it can be ignored no longer, thus necessitating this action be taken.

Thank you for your time, and may our Independent Order remain strong as it goes into the future.
Provided below are a collection of screenshots providing two instances of this abuse of power and unbecoming behavior on the part of the Grand Chancellor.
Spoiler: show







Offline Beatrice

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Re: Motion for the Recall of the Grand Chancellor of the Independent Order
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2023, 10:50:32 AM »
Certainly, and in an unironic sense, I can say with full faith that drinking is not a healthy coping mechanism and does nothing to solve life's woes. I believe it began as I watched someone I've known since childhood change into someone who, today, is wholly unrecognizable from the brilliant mind, the empathetic heart, and generally amazing person become someone wholly different due to some form of mental illness. I myself had to have her comitted, and it was a heart wrenching decision which, while I have full confidence was the right choice, still leaves me with great guilt to this day. I mean she's better now, when she's taking medications as prescribed, but there's a whole future there that's just gone, wedding vows that'll never be exchanged, and a period of abuse that'll linger with me for the rest of my life.

Watching someone you've known since childhood change into someone unrecognizable presents many challenges, many of which I don't think anyone is fully capable of truly handling or comprehending. To follow that, after a couple years of being on my own, finding myself again and getting right with myself, with a relationship which was at its heart truly unhealthy, having lies and mistruths levied against me, the very deprivation of my support structure at one point, truly these past few years have not been normal. Certainly, I turned to the wrong coping mechanisms in those times, and those impacts have shown themselves beyond the confines of myself. I will say though that Nova is no saint, and genuine attempts to smooth things over in private were repeatedly either rejected or complicated by him, which I think led to frustrations boiling over in that regard.

I know full well that, in all of our lives, there are things we can't take back. The past, being what it is, is set in stone. It's not the same case with the future, so in short I fully recognize that I've fallen short of my personal standards and, in that, I've let people down beyond myself. However, I'm taking the steps I probably should have taken when my fiancée, and I do not believe it to be willingly on her part and thus will never hold what she did to me against her personally, brought me to a most difficult chapter of my life. Now the narcissist who followed her will not have the same grace; there's a whole year I won't get back and the toll that took on my own mental health is something I'll be working out weekly, but I can't keep going through the cycle of being alright for a while, having a breakdown, turning to drinking, and waking up without full knowledge of the events of the night before, nor words or actions which I would never undertake under normal circumstances. It's a pledge I make to the community, but most importantly, to myself.

While not excusing anything in the incidents described, I've not been in my right state of mind and that's something I apologize for and truly hope to make up for. While nothing can be done at this hour of the day I'll be doing things right and will be engaging with therapy to address the overwhelming situations I've faced, while also joining Tytor in the teetotaler club. I believe, with everything considered, the grounds of diminished capacity exist as I've never held intent nor will as described above. As I am taking the steps necessary, most importantly for my well-being but also to always engage with all in my life in a healthy manner which follows my personal belief in leaving people better off than when our interactions began, I would suggest that this motion, in effect, be suspended for one month. Allow me to prove that I recognize the issue, to prove that I am taking the steps necessary to address it, and to be someone you all recognize, not someone unrecognizable even to myself.

Beatrice Anselmo
Grand Chancellor of the Independent Order
Empress of the First Empire of Rokkenjima

Factbook of the First Empire of Rokkenjima - Kingdom of Clysperis

Offline DaveIronside

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Re: Motion for the Recall of the Grand Chancellor of the Independent Order
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2023, 12:18:48 PM »
All this is getting boring.

We spend so much time arguing about a position that actually means nothing and frankly is a job we ALL as a community should do, especially any of us with fancy coloured names on the forum.

The "Constitution" (frankly a non-sense concept for what is essentially a web-site) states the Grand Chancellor should do the following jobs. I've provided a commentary about how we ALL fail. 

Ensuring the safety and stability of The Independent Order;
b) Conducting Nationstates inter regional diplomacy - WE ALL CAN DO THIS. I OFTEN GO AND HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH OTHER REGIONS. WE ALL NEED TO MAKE SURE WE'RE KEEPING OUR NATIONS ACTIVE ON NS. FRANKLY I KEEP TRYING AND THEN JUST GIVE UP.

c) Appointing office holders where required; - OFFICE HOLDERS ARE KIND OF NOT NEEDED WITH THE EXCEPTION OF FORUM MODS AND RP MODS

d) Removing office holders where there exists reasonable grounds to do so - WE AS A REGION CAN DO THIS AS DAITO IS ATTEMPTING TO SHOW.

e) Administering the official chatroom of the region, the NationStates region, and any other official off-forum locations; - WE DON'T EVEN CONTROL OUR OWN DISCORD AND HAVEN'T FOR OVER A YEAR I BELIEVE.

f) Advising office holders where requested; - OFFICE HOLDERS SHOULD ALWAYS CONSULT WITH THE REGION

g) Maintaining and updating the Criminal Code and Discord Code of Conduct (with the consultation of the Lord Chief Justice). - DONE BY ACH

h) Investigating complaints concerning the Lord Chief Justice. - DONE AS A COMMUNITY IF AN ISSUE

i) Inducting (and removing when inactive) members of the Order of the Pen upon instruction of the Order. - POINTLESS AS WE DON'T GET NEW PEOPLE TO STAY AND THATS NOT A BEATRICE RELATED ISSUE.


The big concern is "how does this look to new people" kind of vibe. Having spoken since I saw this kick off last night with a few newer users I think its time for some home truths.

We as a region are not good for new comers and its not 100% Beatrices fault at all. Let me give you some examples.

1. We let people who are not actually active in the RP dominate Discord unchallenged creating false impressions.

This effectively ended Hassfurts involvement here. I still RP with her in a different region and she's really good when you consider she's writing in her third language. For those of you who don't recall her she created a nation that effectively used the idea of reincarnation and a kind of mixed influence of the Hindu caste system based on race. It was a very interesting concept and her nation was set up extremely well with a whole culture very different to any other nation on the forum. Meanwhile everytime she goes on Discord she was faced with comments any time people spoke about her nation as them being "Nazi's". As a result of this no one other than me and Achkaerin took time to interact with them ICly. So Hassfurt tried to change the nation removing the race based thing, at which point they were still being labelled the "Nazi" nation and now the concept was far too different to what they actually wanted to RP so they left.

2. Discord is not our regions canon, stop acting like it is.

I'm seeing almost daily people with literally no IC posts in months saying what their nation is and how its perceived by the world. You don't tell people how the world perceives your nation as a "collapsing superpower" or "regional banking centre". If you truly are a regional banking centre this will be demonstrated through how people act ICly towards your nation. When people come online and read all about the stories of certain nations but then go on discord and see nations discussing how big and special they are and then they can't find the same thing on the forum it gets damn confusing, especially for new people. I get at least three or four questions from some of the newer members a week trying to clarify some of the dumb Discord shit. This doesn't happen in other regions.

3. No one cares about new people.

We had Markus and Nova very very active in welcoming and supporting new comers. Yes of course when they first pop into discord say "hi" but welcoming people go beyond that. It even goes beyond saying "if you want to RP hit me up" within five minutes of them being here. Most people when they arrive take I'd guess a week if super active, maybe a month if less so, to feel out the region, get up on its lore, post stuff about their own nation etc. By which point when they are ready they've had next to no-one pay them any attention. Having spoke this morning with Gusano, Faye, Barr and Samoslavia, all of whom I'd say are maybe a month or so into the region they've said they had conversation with three people, me, Altona and Libby. If you want people to feel welcome and stay and thus grow our region treat people like you actually want them here.

4. Stop Dickwaving

We have people treating our region like a competition. People constantly tweeking stats or changing things trying to keep ahead of others. This has lead to people believing they can only be relevant if their big and powerful. The last one I saw was comments like "I'm going to be the biggest economy" etc in an almost competative way. I see regularly people talking about claiming things. When it comes to bands etc thats fine, its a cultural thing, but in the past I've seen people for example spend months RPing the construction of the Large Hadron Collider (its in Nya Aland) and seen no one else ever mention it until all of a sudden with no RP, no mention of it someone just saying on Discord, "Oh year we've that too." and then its never been spoken of again. Fetishising certain tech that we're all supposed to act like its fearsome is also a big issue. I dont want to create RP rules to prevent creativity but some of the Dickwaving is getting beyond ridiculous.


Now back to Daito's motion. Should Beatrice be doing more as Grand Chancellor to be a force for good in the region 100%. Myself and Altona have been responsible for the vast majority of recruitment. I think I am one of the only people that goes out of my way to interact with our embassy regions in NS. If Beatrice wants to be GC then she 100% needs to do the job. In terms of her treatment of others I see at times Beatrice being positive for the region and then making things awkward and I appreciate her honesty about real life. Now this leads to the question should we recall and my response is actually "who cares." You don't get paid for the job, you don't get any perks (trust me I tried blagging a free Costa Coffee with a "Do you know who I am.....I'm the RP Mod for Independent Order " and it got me nothing.) and its at the end of the day a website.  What I care about is creating a welcoming and creative region and we have bigger issues in that regard than Beatrice.

I'm happy to give Beatrice a month but I suggest we as a community get our act together and create the community we actually want ourselves rather than imagining one fictional position will solve everything.

Offline Aosta

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Re: Motion for the Recall of the Grand Chancellor of the Independent Order
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2023, 12:51:34 PM »
If we're talking of the region being a "welcoming" place then Beatrice is not so much the problem. Its the general Discord vibe that makes TIO confusing as hell a lot of the time. Weird user names so no new person has a clue what nation half the people are actually talking about, half the comments there are just inaccurate or uninformed. I see people making claims about there nation, I go check on it and find zero. We spend so long talking on Discord about things being what I'd consider ultra-realistic, I mean I saw a massive conversation about the shape of nations on a map, yet meanwhile we're happy to then let unrealistic geo-politics slide.

Offline Beatrice

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Re: Motion for the Recall of the Grand Chancellor of the Independent Order
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2023, 01:29:02 PM »
Dave, as always, thank you for your insight. We've got to do better, and if there's anything I can do to help and support recruitment efforts do let me know. I'll be spending some time to get to know people I don't have the pleasure of knowing already and, with time, I hope those who've fallen out with me may talk as they see who I am without that most useless of crutches. I've got a pretty busy day ahead of me but I'd like to touch base and get some things rolling at some point.

The regional Discord should be something we all can share, feel comfortable with and it's become (partly due to my own blame) unnecessarily competitive, as well as something I don't think puts our best face forward. I think it's alright to touch base on things, answer questions, but as you've long said if it isn't on the forum it does not exist. I also see what Aosta is saying and think we need to guide the Discord back to how things were in the pre-Discord IRC days. Let's also always think, "Is what I'm about to say useful/positive in someone's day/etc" because if what we're saying and doing, especially if it's knowingly, detrimental then that vibe will never be quite right.

I look forward to getting to work, getting back to basics, as well as putting some ideas out there that have been collecting dust.  :)

Beatrice Anselmo
Grand Chancellor of the Independent Order
Empress of the First Empire of Rokkenjima

Factbook of the First Empire of Rokkenjima - Kingdom of Clysperis

Online Achkaerin

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Re: Motion for the Recall of the Grand Chancellor of the Independent Order
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2023, 07:03:00 PM »
I'm going to keep this is as simple as I can.

1) What happened last night amounts to abuse/misuse of Mod Power by Beatrice - the penalty for that under the code of conduct/criminal code is fairly severe, I haven't enforced that penalty instead I've left it with the action I took last night and I don't intend at this point to take further action in my mod capacity (though I will take further steps if needed)

2) Daito is entitled to pursue the recall motion if he wishes to do so.

3) Discord Management needs to function in a sensible manner and not on whims. It needs clear messaging, less channels, people behaving and so on, probably also some sort of clear out in respect of members.


Offline Nova

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Re: Motion for the Recall of the Grand Chancellor of the Independent Order
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2023, 10:00:48 PM »
Just passing by. 'Cause can't believe what I saw by mistake, those jokeful reactions, that's cute, couldn't resist passing-by.

Dave and Achkaerin “forgiving” Beatrice's toxic behaviour, once more, number #14378659248924942. You two are truly masochists.

Listen to that music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuJIqmha2Hk

Read:

https://independentorder.net/index.php?topic=6

https://independentorder.net/index.php?topic=2639

https://independentorder.net/index.php?topic=2859.0

https://independentorder.net/index.php?topic=475

https://independentorder.net/index.php?topic=1866.0

https://independentorder.net/index.php?topic=2547

https://independentorder.net/index.php?topic=2555.0

https://independentorder.net/index.php?topic=2611.0

A new beginning a new hope, change..! Ahem, no, regretfully.

Résumé of discord and RP drama caused by B (with at least 18 RP dramas, so great): https://independentorder.net/index.php?topic=2885.0

But yeah, wait a month, keep B, great idea, totally won't go wrong again for the 8th time (yes, I counted them). Can't wait to see the next post in 4 to 8 months with a new massive drama caused by B. See you then, I'll grab more popcorn.

Offline Beatrice

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Re: Motion for the Recall of the Grand Chancellor of the Independent Order
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2023, 10:45:37 PM »
It's a paradox perhaps, I'm probably not even using the right word, I can go days, weeks, months, longer without touching a drop of alcohol but when I do (did) never just one, and they'd be followed with the next. If there's one thing I want people to know is that if you're feeling hurt, if you're depressed, or in my case trying to process the last few years of your life and realizing that the future you thought you had is dead and now you're pretty much starting over, please I beg you, never self-medicate. It is not weak to admit you have a problem, and it's not wrong to talk to someone about things that are going on, things you're worried about, even things you can't understand at the moment. Talk to someone, if you don't have anyone drop me a message if you don't have anyone else, if everyone else is asleep, just talk to someone.

The alternative is decidedly worse, becoming someone you're not, poisoning yourself to the point your brain loses the ability to form new memories, and you wake up with this horrible anxiety. Talk to someone, like I'm doing now, like I should have done years ago. Get an apple from your favourite apple tree in town, spend some time with nature, family, friends.

Tonight, I came home with a drink. It's a light-blue Gatorade. Daito is correct in saying I did horrible things, Nova's got a record and brought receipts too. Even if I can't remember those moments, the words exchanged, the feelings hurt and everything else, they did happen. I tried to do things on my own for so long, being told that problems and feelings are mine and not to trouble anyone with them, and that is it's own lonely road. Don't do what I did, do what I'm doing: I'm not doing it by myself this time, and having insurance I would be crazy to keep trying to do it on my own. Hopefully someday I'll be able to figure things out and find a sense of closure that has escaped me for years, but until then I have a therapist; our first session is next week, and it's day one without a drink.

Geo and I are good though, and while he didn't have to and I told him I'd understand if he couldn't, he's cool with me and I'm not letting another person down. Not myself, not others, not any of you, and I'm sorry for the nights I can't remember. All I can do though is prove to myself and you, that I'm making better decisions than the day which came before. Fate is all good, I respect those that believe in it, but we've got the power to make our day better every time, every minute is a new chance to make a different choice.

Beatrice Anselmo
Grand Chancellor of the Independent Order
Empress of the First Empire of Rokkenjima

Factbook of the First Empire of Rokkenjima - Kingdom of Clysperis

Online Daitō

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Re: Motion for the Recall of the Grand Chancellor of the Independent Order
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2023, 11:02:45 PM »
One month. Okay, we'll see in one month what happens, I will postpone pursuing a recall until then.

Online Achkaerin

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Re: Motion for the Recall of the Grand Chancellor of the Independent Order
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2023, 11:26:21 PM »
Ok so to be clear on what this means with Daito willing to wait a month he will now be informing us, I presume by posting in this topic, on the 22nd of September whether or not he wishes to resume pursuing the recall.

As far as the matter from a Criminal Code perspective is concerned I have, as stated earlier, taken action this was done by means of a sanction imposed against Beatrice she has been informed what that sanction is and why it has been imposed, I will not go into further details about the sanction other than to say that the sanction imposed does mean that there should be no repeat performance of the incident.

Offline Beatrice

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Re: Motion for the Recall of the Grand Chancellor of the Independent Order
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2023, 12:50:43 AM »
Just passing by. 'Cause can't believe what I saw by mistake, those jokeful reactions, that's cute, couldn't resist passing-by.

Dave and Achkaerin “forgiving” Beatrice's toxic behaviour, once more, number #14378659248924942. You two are truly masochists.

Listen to that music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuJIqmha2Hk

Read:

https://independentorder.net/index.php?topic=6

https://independentorder.net/index.php?topic=2639

https://independentorder.net/index.php?topic=2859.0

https://independentorder.net/index.php?topic=475

https://independentorder.net/index.php?topic=1866.0

https://independentorder.net/index.php?topic=2547

https://independentorder.net/index.php?topic=2555.0

https://independentorder.net/index.php?topic=2611.0

A new beginning a new hope, change..! Ahem, no, regretfully.

Résumé of discord and RP drama caused by B (with at least 18 RP dramas, so great): https://independentorder.net/index.php?topic=2885.0

But yeah, wait a month, keep B, great idea, totally won't go wrong again for the 8th time (yes, I counted them). Can't wait to see the next post in 4 to 8 months with a new massive drama caused by B. See you then, I'll grab more popcorn.

There won't be a next post 4-8 months from now because I won't allow myself to be a source of pain or contention for this community again. I had my issues, I was sick, and just so much as to you as anyone else, I am sorry. I'm sorry I failed you, I'm sorry I let you down, I'm sorry I did not live up to my own personal expectations. I miss you more than you'll ever know, too, but that's not what is important right now.

I was miserable, I was insufferable, I did things here that were not right more times than one and even if I was drunk off my rocker, it doesn't excuse it. I wronged so many of you and even if I wasn't fully in command of my faculties, that's a pain I have to carry and hope you can one day forgive me for. Because I want to write with you, I want to tell stories, my punishment continues even after my recovery and, to be honest, I fully f*cking deserve that. I wish we could have hit it off with where I'm at now, because, I'm not that bad honestly, I hate who I was to you in those moments. There won't be a next post 4-8 months from now though, because I long ago identified this insidious demon and I won't allow it power over myself any longer. My actions inadvertently caused me to threaten everything we've built and I won't allow it to happen again.

Anyone banking on popcorn, I'm sorry, it'll grow cold and stale. I'm me again, I like watching skunks play in garbage and kittens be their playful selfs; I've no room in my heart for hate or looking to the past with ire. This gal is looking to the future, and that future is bright and I hope to see y'all there (that includes you, Nova) because, you didn't meet me honestly. I hope we can have a reset because I don't want to miss out on some awesome people because I was drinking myself stupid.

Beatrice Anselmo
Grand Chancellor of the Independent Order
Empress of the First Empire of Rokkenjima

Factbook of the First Empire of Rokkenjima - Kingdom of Clysperis