Proposing The Association of Dauntel and Shaw Nations (ADSN) - OPEN

[Daitō]

   Sadazane had been listening to the conversation, finding that he agreed on many things and disagreed on others. In particular, like both Serena and Graziano, he didn't support a total removal of tariffs, as it had the potential to harm several Daitōjin industries ranging from agriculture and petroleum extraction to chemical production and automobile manufacturing, even if it would further open up new markets. That being the case, however, he acknowledged that a that such a removal was not even in the cards, as the expressed goal of this summit was the establishment of a Free Trade Area, not a customs union like the Empress and Consul seemed to think.
   "While I believe that the Empire of Daitō would not benefit from a total removal of tariffs, I fail to see why such a notion is even being contemplated. After all, to my knowledge, there has not been any indication that this Association that has been proposed is one that will constitute a customs union. Yes, our host mentioned the creation of a Free Trade Area as the primary goal of this summit, which would entail a reduction in tariffs between those nations which are party to the agreement, but it is then a significant leap to presume that it would result in that." He paused. "This being the case, however, I am willing to support the proposal as it stands."

   "Now, as for this 'Science Consortium', while I would support its establishment, I must admit I have similar concerns to those shared by the Consul, at least on the second part. I will, however, note that forcing countries to buy into the consortium in such a fashion will only give a prospective future member of this association cause to ignore it. Perhaps instead of increasing the amount needed to join the consortium, the governments which are party to it will pledge to pay a set percentage of their GDP into it per year, at least until the consortium can be self-sufficient?"

[Viljandi]

Empress Tanya Ulisi Ydrakov I listened carefully. But then contributed again."Customs union, free trade area, it doesn't matter to us. I will admit it. Skalvia unfortunately thanks to the mismanagement of my father is not as developed as I would like it to be. I mean on the east coast of the Strait of Shaw and the east coast on the Sea of Alucard is very well developed everywhere else in the country is uncertain. You have modern towns and cities, but also you have entire settlements where they live in the early 20th century, and initialising a war with a more developed state where we lost territory back in 1992 didn't help. However we are on our way with normalising relations ith our old enemenies with the Union of Vyn;landia & the Balthnian Republics. So that issue will be buttoned up, as for our economy, well we have enough reach to effortllllllllessly transport goods to the states that share a coast with the Straits of Shaw to the East Ardia states on the coast on the Sea of Alucard so shipping is not a problem. due to our geography, so the level of regional economic integration is not a concern for us...At least in however my at the moment at most we would be comfortable agreeing to is a customs union. However catering to other nations unique needs is also an option. A free trade area is probably best for now. and if needed other discussions of further integration can come later. As for the science consortium, well I have no reason to oppose that. Skalvia being a huge market for energy with our immense nautral gas reserves would like to co-operate in the area of biofuels and other fields of renewable energy. I will make a suggestion however that we invite the UVBR in that area, they may be our former enemies, but they are very adept in the fields of Computer Science, biotech and many fields of engineering, many Skalvian students study at their universities in those fields."

[Beatrice]

"I am in support of a free trade area, as well as a progressive approach to the Science Consortium," the Empress would respond.

[Achkaerin]

"There's an awful lot of dancing around things going on here" Xiaoling said slowly "To some extent this goes all the way back to Empress Serena's point about trust. The bread and butter to treaties across Mundus are generally trade, diplomacy and travel all are leaps of trust and some are more difficult, especially when you go multilateral as this organisation would. Something like easing travel restrictions is usually accomplished by agreeing to what the limitations on travel are, an exchange of embassies tends to be accompanied by responsibilities, all of which have in the grand scheme of things minimal impacts." she took a breath "Trade is a level or two higher than that. We're all in the world of politics and whatever we agree here ultimately will have to be ratified back home, and the Consul and Empress Serena are correct that becomes significantly harder to get through back home when we don't have the safeguards to protect our own industries, decreasing tariffs to a universal rate between us is a fair compromise especially given how it has been suggested, it creates the market and establishes a rate that is actually needed otherwise why even have the discussion? the actual mechanism proposed is somewhat of a variation on a provision found in the Network of Crowns. But let's be clear wide open trade is a significant number of steps down the track from where we are right now. The proposed science consortium is a great idea and is supported, however I share the concerns raised, I do think there has to be a buy in but we'd have to maybe fix the rate to either historic contributions of a member over a set time or just have a flat rate that must be put in."

Xiaoling took a breath "Now the big challenge of those mentioned is going to be in the defence area but we'll deal with that when we get there. The point is and this will ring true throughout these talks - some of us know each other better than we know others but what we agree must reflect the whole of the meeting, if this is to work then everyone must be able to sell this back home. The art of diplomacy in moments like this is not necessarily about finding the ideal, or the popular view but the compromise view that gets everyone something they can live with."

[Aosta]

Serena found herself trying not to look at Empress Tanya as she spoke, each of the nations had problems, each of the nations had to overcome disparities in development, perhaps Gowu and Rokkenjima excepted. "I'd remind Empress Tanya there has long existed a mechanism to transport goods across Albion. The Aosta-Lodjain high speed railway has been in existence well over a year and through the mechanisms of the Council of Albion and the Treaty of Unified Nations of the Alucard (TUNA) we've been able to put in place a whole host of arrangements. So please lets be clear I will not bring our Empire into any agreement that means goods enter our nation with no controls or no tariffs. I would be open to a process of streamlined entry for goods and lower tariffs but not a total removal. As for things like defence I will not put Imperial Forces into a situation where we are bound to potentially send them to shed blood because of the actions of others in this room. While we are all from lands bordering the same ocean there is little else to bind us as our friend from Gowu has outlined. For now I would like to table this as a section of the agreement we are looking to make."

In order to effect more prosperous trading oppurtunities the nations signed as members of the ADSN agree to the following measures.

1. Any export to a member nations shall be accompanied by a declaration that the export abides by all local laws. To ensure compliance the receiving nation may carry out any non-destructive test on any product arriving at their nation. Any product deemed to be not incompliance with local laws or not accompanied by a decleration shall see a fine of non more than 5 times the value of the consignment paid by the exporter.

2. On the anniversary of the signing of this document each member nation shall produce a list of tariffs to be paid by all member nations. Those tariffs may be set on any goods or items the nation wish. The tariffs set by each nation must be at a level lower than for any nation with which they do not have a current trade agreement with.

3. This agreement does not prevent member nations making their own trade agreements.

4. Any item with a value of less than $1million exported to a nation for temporary use shall be permitted to enter tariff free so long as it is for a period of less than 30 days.

"I believe this allows us each to protect the sectors of industry we need to protect but helps trade, I also believe the temporary entry clause allows us to carry out exhibitions and showcases with ease." 

[Abertone]

Graziano looked at the suggestion for Empress Serena, while he believed Aosta and Abertone could end up competing for several of the same markets he also believed they shared some similarities. Perhaps he should arrange for his cousin to go visit, although he wasn't sure Serena may appreciate that. He looked over her suggestion once more and then spoke.

"I like the basis of the Empresses proposals. I would however like to add a 5th point if I may. I would like it said that "ADSN nations would agree to allow operations by businesses from other ADSN nations on condition that those businesses operate following local laws concerning taxation, employment, health and safety and environmental matters." Our own nation has some rather innovative micro-finance programmes run by respected businesses and I think they could provide oppurtunities within your nations as well as helping these micro-finance businesses continue being successful thus creating what I would hope would be a cycle of prosperity. I think Empress Serena's proposal is likely to help the large businesses like Abstergo more than perhaps smaller businesses and my proposal for article 5 would perhaps allow some smaller niche markets to expand too. I also support what she says on the matter of defence.  With the exception of Gowu and Rokkenjima the ties between those here in this room are woefully absent. Defence should be off the table beyond perhaps sharing intelligence on things such as piracy and terrorism. This body will then give us ways to closer co-operate in other areas, bring about deeper ties and then the mechanism of the annual foreign minister meetings can see defence perhaps added at a later date."

His talk over he jotted down a note and handed it to one of his aides who delivered it to Empress Serena. "I believe our nations see many things the same way. I would very much like to visit Aosta to discuss these more deeply if you would permit."

[Viljandi]

Empress Ydrakov thought she would rephrase "Empress Serena, perhaps you misunderstood me. I'm basically saying that we are flexible. I'm not asking or forcing anyone here to give up protections. Thats not my goal. I'm saying Skalvia is comfortable of any level of regional intergration that nations here are comfortable with, with the limit of being a customs union. As for your existing agreement and transportation mechanism, well that of no concern to us...So long as that is clear. Then fine. As for your proposal, well I see nothing that we would have an issue with. As for military matters Skalvia has no such ambition to join any military agreement of any kind, just stating that position to be clear."

[Achkaerin]

"I believe this is the proposed trade section as it currently stands including the Consul's proposed addition" Xiaoling said "Do correct me if I'm wrong"

In order to effect more prosperous trading oppurtunities the nations signed as members of the ADSN agree to the following measures.

1. Any export to a member nations shall be accompanied by a declaration that the export abides by all local laws. To ensure compliance the receiving nation may carry out any non-destructive test on any product arriving at their nation. Any product deemed to be not incompliance with local laws or not accompanied by a decleration shall see a fine of non more than 5 times the value of the consignment paid by the exporter.

2. On the anniversary of the signing of this document each member nation shall produce a list of tariffs to be paid by all member nations. Those tariffs may be set on any goods or items the nation wish. The tariffs set by each nation must be at a level lower than for any nation with which they do not have a current trade agreement with.

3. This agreement does not prevent member nations making their own trade agreements.

4. Any item with a value of less than $1million exported to a nation for temporary use shall be permitted to enter tariff free so long as it is for a period of less than 30 days.

5. ADSN nations agree to allow operations by businesses from other ADSN nations on condition that those businesses operate following local laws concerning taxation, employment, health and safety and environmental matters.

OOC - in the interests of keeping things moving might I suggest 48 hours before taking this as agreed unless there be objections to the article?

[Beatrice]

OOC: As no objections have been noted, we'll proceed.
"The proposed section as put forth is as such adopted with no objections,"  the Empress would gently say. "Now then, shall we address visas? It is the opinion of the First Empire that we are prepared to adopt a generous attitude in this sphere, but I am interested in hearing in what you all have to say before presenting my own ideas here."

[Aosta]

Aosta had a track record in the past of having welcomed people from afar, but things were changing. When they'd accepted the Bene Gesserit Aosta had vast stretches of farmland that needed labour, the Bene Gesserit brought wealthy with them and then things began to change, the world had modernised and now in the 21st Century there was  in Serena's view less need for the Empire to need people to do things for them. "I think we perhaps here may see division. I understand the CSTO and CSU had provisions for visa free movement of such. I personally don't hold with that 100% but I do believe if we're to help each other in circules such as science, business and even education then making it easier for some to move will be a good step. I therefore propose the following.

On order to ease the movement of citizens throughout the ADSN region members of the ADSN agree to the following measures.

1. There shall the the establishment of a three path system for visas. These shall be the Short Term Visa, Business Visa and Educational Visa

2. The Short Term Visa shall be available to any individual who books return or onward passage via any means at least 30 days before the date of travel. So long as these dates are no longer apart than 60 calendar days then the individual may enter visa free so long as the receiving nation do not believe that the person poses a risk to the security or good order of the nation. Holders of this visa may not undertake any work while staying in the receiving nation.

3. The Business Visa shall be available to any individual who is travelling on business purposes. To obtain this an individual must have a guarantor from a business within the receiving nation. This visa shall allow an individual to remain in the receiving nation for 180 days and they may undertake paid employment while based there. This type of visa may not be renewed for 90 days. Should the receiving nation believe the individual is a risk to security or good order of the nation then entry may be stopped.

4. The Educational Visa shall be available to any individual who has obtained confirmation of the offer of an educational course within a receiving nation. This visa shall cover the entire duration of the course and will permit the holder to a maximum of 20 hours per work employment during their course.   Should the receiving nation believe the individual is a risk to security or good order of the nation then entry may be stopped.

5. Any individual breaking the conditions of any of these three visa programmes is liable to deportation and may be banned from travel to the receiving nation indefinitely.

6. The home nation shall take all reasonable steps to ensure anyone deported and banned from travel is prevented from returning.

[Abertone]

Graziano studied the proposal. He broadly liked the ideas that Empress Serena had put forward. There were however a few issues that he had. "I strongly support the majority of what the Empress has put forward however I would like to make a few things clear. What concerns me is if we end up with large scale economic migration taking advantage of a 180 days and not perhaps contributing to the tax economy of the nation they are living in. I would want to see a measure put in where before leaving the nation on a Business Visa a person must present receipts showing that while in the nation they have paid the same amount of tax as a person from that nation would have receiving the same wage or making the same income. I would also like a provision put in place that a nation can access criminal records to ensure we can background check individuals arriving in our nation. At present we have no way of knowing whether that Rokkenjiman student arriving in our nation taking advantage of a Educational Visa is not for example someone convicted of say sexual assault. If we can find a way around these issues I'm happy to see your ideas added."

[Beatrice]

"I believe that a database of criminal records, to be accessed only for the purposes of visa verifications, would be a solution to the concerns presented. I am also in agreement with receipts being presented and feel that the suggestion makes sense. While increasing the ease of travel is a goal doing so responsibly is the prudent course of action moving forward."

[Achkaerin]

One thing was for certain Serena and Graziano were showing all their diplomatic smarts. The big problem coming in had been consideration of what other nations had already signed, so far they'd avoided that mainly because everything agreed so far lined up with all the previous agreements and that now included this proposal on visa's. Xiaoling took a moment.

"Empress Serena's proposal is broadly the norm, it defines the types of visa, it defines lengths and other such things it is therefore supported. Likewise the Consul's points are equally agreeable but he does imply something else that we may need to consider, that of extradition. The Consul correctly identifies that a Rokkenjiman student travelling to Abertone that has been convicted of a sexual assault should not be allowed to take advantage of the visa, because and I don't wish to put words into the Consul's mouth but the reasoning is presumably that the Rokkenjiman student poses a risk. However assume for the moment that there is no conviction but that the student has committed a crime and uses the visa as a means of fleeing the jurisdiction, I think it appropriate that there be a mechanism that once the evidence is collected that it be possible for the student to be handed over to the relevant authority."

[Aosta]

Serena was pleased that it seeemed like so far she was broadly speaking getting the deal she believed that both she, and Aosta wanted. The point from Xiaoling was not going to be an issue however there was something Serena wished to get across. " I believe that extradition should not necessarily be automatic. There may be situations where in the future a member nation seeks to extradite someone and doing so would prevent fair trials or the accusation is malicious. I therefore would like to see that extradition takes place only after assurances are made in the courts of the nation in which the accused are based that the accused is going to get a fair trial. I also believe that as none of the visas were suggesting allow an individual to just turn up and travel the police background checks should flag up the accusation before they travel and as such I know Aosta would not allow the travel in the first place. It is also the case that should allegations turn up once they arrived we would consider them a risk to good order or national security, depending on the accusation and so under the terms of a visa they would be deported. I am though happy if our friend wishes to suggest some belts and braces wording. "

[Daitō]

   "I am inclined to agree, at least with regards to extradition." Said Konishi, who had been listening in on the conversation before he would add anything. "While I wouldn't want to disparage the courts of the other nations represented here, there are certainly... differences in how they operate." He noted, briefly glancing at the Skalvian delegation before returning his gaze to the others. There were some things he had seen, been present for, which even now, after twenty-six years, yet lingered in his mind. Regardless of how he felt, regardless of what he thought of them, there was work still to be done. "Likewise, I would support the creation of a database for criminal records, as it would generally assist in the background checks already performed on foreign nationals entering the country." He paused. "However, I would like to propose one additional type of visa, one which it is my belief will prove beneficial to the ADSN as a whole."

On order to ease the movement of citizens throughout the ADSN region members of the ADSN agree to the following measures.

1. There shall the the establishment of a four path system for visas. These shall be the Short Term Visa, Business Visa, Educational Visa, and the Temporary Worker Visa.

2. The Short Term Visa shall be available to any individual who books return or onward passage via any means at least 30 days before the date of travel. So long as these dates are no longer apart than 60 calendar days then the individual may enter visa free so long as the receiving nation do not believe that the person poses a risk to the security or good order of the nation. Holders of this visa may not undertake any work while staying in the receiving nation.

3. The Business Visa shall be available to any individual who is travelling on business purposes. To obtain this an individual must have a guarantor from a business within the receiving nation. This visa shall allow an individual to remain in the receiving nation for 180 days and they may undertake paid employment while based there. This type of visa may not be renewed for 90 days. Should the receiving nation believe the individual is a risk to security or good order of the nation then entry may be stopped.

4. The Educational Visa shall be available to any individual who has obtained confirmation of the offer of an educational course within a receiving nation. This visa shall cover the entire duration of the course and will permit the holder to a maximum of 20 hours per work employment during their course. Should the receiving nation believe the individual is a risk to security or good order of the nation then entry may be stopped.

5. The Temporary Worker Visa shall be available to any individual who has obtained confirmation of employment in the receiving nation. The visa shall be issued based on several factors, including ones profession and the duration of their contract, and last between three months and five years. This type of visa may be renewed prior to its expiration, provided that one meets the requisite criteria. Should the receiving nation believe the individual is a risk to security or good order of the nation, then entry may be stopped.

6. Any individual breaking the conditions of any of these three visa programmes is liable to deportation and may be banned from travel to the receiving nation indefinitely.

7. The home nation shall take all reasonable steps to ensure anyone deported and banned from travel is prevented from returning.

[Viljandi]

Tanya studied the Visa agreements her ears perked up in terms of extradition and read the Daitojin's expression carefully. A lot of war criminals had fled Skalvia in 1997 and boyond and have gone into hiding, she would usually have the nations intelliagence services track them down and kill them, however she knew that not many nations would look kindly on that so she kept that opinion to herself. So she would just ask questions for now. "Can I ask. While we are talking about extradition I ask that if we are to provide assuences of a fair trial, what type of assurances would be needed. Or is that left to the discretion of both parties? Some rather unsavory figures have fled my nation in the late 90's with false identities, some we have managed to track. others have alluded us. In that respect, if we were to follow that framework that is being suggested here. How would we go about tracking down and brining those kind of people to justice?" She asked respectively wanted to gauge the situtation before she would suggest something different or sign.

[Achkaerin]

"If Empress Tanya will bear with me for a moment I'd like to first respond to the Daito Prime Minister and ask a simple question given what is implied by the business visa could he perhaps explain what the difference is between the business visa and the temporary workers visa he proposes to add as they largely seem to overlap." Xiaoling said "Now in terms of extradition to answer Empress Tanya's question I'll say that Empress Serena is correct it is the right of the nation being asked to request assurances, these will vary nation to nation, so for example if I was asked to hand someone over I'm asking for assurances of a fair trial, for which I would take the relevant article of the MCUR, I would also want to be clear that the death penalty was off the table, that's simple Achkaerinese policy which of course does not impact on your own respective processes so while we wait on the Prime Ministers clarifications allow me to provide the belt and braces:

On order to ease the movement of citizens throughout the ADSN region members of the ADSN agree to the following measures.

1. There shall the the establishment of a four path system for visas. These shall be the Short Term Visa, Business Visa, Educational Visa, and the Temporary Worker Visa.

2. The Short Term Visa shall be available to any individual who books return or onward passage via any means at least 30 days before the date of travel. So long as these dates are no longer apart than 60 calendar days then the individual may enter visa free so long as the receiving nation do not believe that the person poses a risk to the security or good order of the nation. Holders of this visa may not undertake any work while staying in the receiving nation.

3. The Business Visa shall be available to any individual who is travelling on business purposes. To obtain this an individual must have a guarantor from a business within the receiving nation. This visa shall allow an individual to remain in the receiving nation for 180 days and they may undertake paid employment while based there. This type of visa may not be renewed for 90 days. Should the receiving nation believe the individual is a risk to security or good order of the nation then entry may be stopped.

4. The Educational Visa shall be available to any individual who has obtained confirmation of the offer of an educational course within a receiving nation. This visa shall cover the entire duration of the course and will permit the holder to a maximum of 20 hours per work employment during their course. Should the receiving nation believe the individual is a risk to security or good order of the nation then entry may be stopped.

5. The Temporary Worker Visa shall be available to any individual who has obtained confirmation of employment in the receiving nation. The visa shall be issued based on several factors, including ones profession and the duration of their contract, and last between three months and five years. This type of visa may be renewed prior to its expiration, provided that one meets the requisite criteria. Should the receiving nation believe the individual is a risk to security or good order of the nation, then entry may be stopped.

6. Any individual breaking the conditions of any of these visa programmes is liable to deportation and may be banned from travel to the receiving nation indefinitely.

7. The home nation shall take all reasonable steps to ensure anyone deported and banned from travel is prevented from returning.

8. In the event of an individual traveler in one nation being believed to be responsible, whether individually or as a conspirator, for criminal actions within the jurisdiction of another member state, the individual shall be extradited subject to the following being provided to the visited nations relevant authority.
a) Evidence of the wrongdoing
b) An understanding that the individual will receive a fair trial in a court of law

9. There shall be no obligation for the visited nation to extradite an individual to the death penalty.

[Daitō]

   "It's quite simple, really." Sadazane cleared his throat. "The business visa is largely confined to periods of just 180 days, which, I will freely admit, covers a part of what is being proposed under the Temporary Worker Visa. However, for those individuals working in a foreign country for longer than 180 days, being forced to renew their visa within half a year of their arrival could be... troublesome, we'll say. For example, let's say we have a teacher from Aosta working in Daitō. Normally, the school year begins at the start of the second week of April and ends in the first week of March. Let's then assume that this teacher arrives roughly two weeks before classes begin, so under the business visa, they'd have 180 days in the country. This would mean that, assuming they cannot renew their visa—something which can happen for any number of reasons—this teacher could only remain in the country roughly half-way into the school year, leaving them without work and said school scrambling to find a replacement.

   "With a Temporary Worker Visa, such as what Daitō already uses, such a situation is, barring the worst of circumstances, unlikely to occur. Why? Because the individual's stay is determined by the length of their contract, up to five years at a time at an absolute maximum. This means that a foreigner working in Daitō will not have to worry about not being able to stay, whether they will be able to complete their contract or not. Instead, going back to this example, under the 'TWV', said teacher would be allowed to stay until mid-March, providing enough time for them to make the arrangements to return home."

   Of course, though Sadazane didn't say it, he found that calling it a Business Visa was... confusing, given the contents of it. It appeared to be a work visa, however, it only lasted 180 days, similar to a standard short-stay visa. It also meant that there was room for confusion with actual business visas, which only permitted participating in commerce within a country. "In other words, either the current Business Visa being proposed should be retooled to better fit the standard of a Temporary Worker Visa, or it should be reworked to better fit the profile of an actual business visa as understood by most governments."